Do concepts/thoughts exist?
 

I was having a conversation today with this girl from work and it eventually came to a halt when we reached this question. I was talking about how we should not consider ourselves seperate from the universe (long story, I won't go into it), then It went like...

Me: Look at this brick. It's as much me as my hand is.
Her: What about business. Are you business?
Me: What is business?
Her: Business is business.
Me: I guess im not business... BUT, I am a piece of paper with writing on it, I am a man wearing a suit, I am money, I am a table... "Business" doesn't exist.
Her: Well how are we talking about it?
Me: It is a concept... Like... ummm... (at this point I was in a line waiting for food, and there was a notice nearby about fathers day)... Fathers day.
Her: Fathers day exists.
Me: Does it? When you can bring fathers day to me, and show it to me, I will believe that it exists.
Her: It exists in here. (She pointed to her head)
Me: Hmmm... Fathers day isnt in your head, your brain is just made of matter, impulses and chemicals. But fathers day IS in your head...
Her: So that means it does exist?
Me: I don't know... Its a concept, concepts are thoughts. Do thoughts exist?

Me & Her: wtf?

So... What? Do they exist? I can't figure it out. My brain says they don't exist, but if no concepts exist how can my brain even be thinking of the concept of the non-existence of concepts?

I think, something that isn't an object can't exist in the universe
only in our head will concepts & memories exist !!

But then they would have existed anyway !!

Sorry I don't know !

See? It fucks you up... -_-

Who fucking cares...no, honestly.

"I think, therefore I am." - Descartes

Yes, they exist.

You fail to take into account that even though everything consists of atoms and the subdivisions within atoms and the subdivisions within the subdivisions until perhaps you reach a pinprick of nothingness, that these atoms interact in intricate forms that create separate objects. Atoms make up the world, like skinflakes make up our epidermis. Yeah, your brain is chemical reactions and synapses, but touch your leg. Are the atoms in your hand passing through the atoms in your leg? No, it's a solid object despite its components because those components meld together into a form creating the object. Two hydrogen, one oxygen, makes water, but water is still water despite its components.

Need further elaboration?

We exist. That's it. If I close my eyes, the visual world ceases to exist, and the synapses in my brain don't register any light passing through, except the blackness that reflects or is devoid of any light; does that mean the world ceases to exist? Does that mean unless I touch the object, all it is is a memory, and that memory becomes a memory because each passing moment creates a new memory and the memory of what I just typed may be fabricated in my own mind?

I think it's more of the fact we want ourselves to be more important than we truly are.

The title of this thread itself made me want to crawl into a corner and die.

What are you arguing?

Yeah, atoms make things, we exist, we think we're more important than we should.

... Do thoughts/concepts exist?

thats like trying to figure out the depth of the infinity of outer space.....

that shit will run circles around your mind tryin to even think on that shit.... i get a brain cramp even toyin wit the concept of infinity...

so i can empathize wit you on the do concepts exist....

i took a lot of mind altering drugs in my life... and at one point... i couldnt tell what was real... and what wasnt.... i came to an understandin of the universe this one time while on Salvia Divinorum.... it was insane... i juss wish i could have grasped it all and took it back with me... cuz im tellin you.... i KNEW ... i could walk through walls.... and that the only reason i couldnt was because of the Math in our reality.... the equasitions which make up our physical reality.... its fucked up.... Mind Boggling really.... so yea....

i can empathize...

Tito, checka la pm's.

What the fuck are you talking about, do thoughts/concepts exist?



I interpreted that as meaning, you aren't yourself, because everything in the universe is of the same consistent state and origin.

"I think, therefore I am."

I can't honestly see what the fuck you're saying. Do you mean "reality is how we view it?"

to understand this question is to understand the source of a concept or a thought.
can something come from nothing or does nothing=nothing.
its actually simple, thoughts and concepts do exist, which is why they are considered nouns i guess.

Man, stop making everything so complicated.

All im asking is do thoughts/concepts exist... Thats the only question.

i know exactly what you're talking about, but its impossible to put into words. kind of like if you think about it, what does everything ACTUALLY look like? our eyes could alter the colors in everything we see, so what does everything ACTUALLY look like, not through any eyes? well, nothing can be SEEN without something to reflect the image. so do any objects really EXIST? blah, like i said... impossible to put into words... lol

of course thoughts concepts and even memories exist as neural synapses (electrical signals). memories just as chemical combinations written on neural strands.

all tangible, none of them are "events". Fathers day is an event, a thought isn't an "event", when it happens its an event.

Alright. Word.

This may not make sense, but what you said made me realize that concepts don't exist.

^word.

it makes sense to me man cuz i see what level you guys are on. concepts in a physical only exist as an electrical impulse (and susequent magnetic ethers) and nothing more.

cheers