Is anybody out there?
 

A spillover thread inspired by my track about the lack of presence of a "God". I know there is no god present looking over us or caring for us simply based on the savage things that happen daily. Someone can walk into a church right now, beat a priest into a coma with his Bible, go rape a Nun and shoot the both of them in the face while both of them pray for god to save them. Where is he to save them? Young girls get raped daily. Where's god to save them?

The Bible it self states that God does not love and respect everyone equally and that some people are born inferior to others and should be enslaved, submissive and so on - THIS IS FROM THE BIBLE AND I CAN SHOW YOU! There is no God to save you. He's either gone, or dead. Your helping hand is at the end of your own arm.

Where in the Bible?

*prepares for a very big debate*

pfftt. which instance do you want to know about, the one where God says women are inferior, or the one where God says you should have slaves and make their children lifelong slaves? :prepares for the very same debate:

that slaves part is like one story........ and its to teach a lesson, not to actually encourage slavery

I'll do the women first. *cracks knuckles*

Do you think god is supposed to be some little man sitting on a cloud with a 'priest in trouble' alert going off?

Here is a small essay I wrote up a week ago explaining god.
-----------------------------------------------------

When we think of the universe, what usually comes to mind is the endless void of space that surrounds us. But is it really endless?

Science teaches us that the universe is infact slowly spreading out and growing bigger. This is the reason for the 'Big Bang' theory, where if we were to trace back to the beginning of the universe all matter that has made progress in spreading out would ofcourse be condensed back into its origional form. Meaning that it had to start somewhere.

But the question is, what exactly was there BEFORE the condensed matter all of a sudden exploded and created this big bang? And why exactly did it happen?

These questions, are essentually unanswerable. However there are feasable theorys that explain possibilitys as to how this all works. There is a known theory that the universe works on cycles, creating a loop effect where all matter begins at the highest extremity of condensation, meaning ALL matter is squashed into a tiny point, then explodes and expands as the universe is born, and finally reaches an apex where, following a fundemental rule in physics "Everything that goes up, must come down" it slowly begins to condense again untill it reaches the beginning of a new cycle and starts off with a new big bang. To give a clearer explenation, here is a diagram:


These cycles create a reality that explains the eternal or infinite nature of the universe. However, one might then come to the straight up question of "why?". Why is there this reality? Why if the matter can reach such a point of complete condensation, does it not just remain in this state? Why does all this even exist in the first place?

Thats where our good ol' buddy god comes in. Now most philosophers look at god as being an external being that created the universe and exists beyond the limits of space and time. Which is true. To an extent. However this does not explain a damn thing.. Because, if god existed outside the universe, why exactly would he have a need to create it in the first place? This is where it gets very interesting.

My conclusion, is that 'God' is infact THE universe itself. Which may sound perplexing at first, however if you follow the evidence and understand the reason, its actually a very feasable conclusion. The universe essentually exists as the imaginative build-up inside THE mind of god. This not only co-insides with the universal theorys, but it also completes them.

Look at the universe in terms we can understand, humans are said to be created in god's image. The birth of a human concience begins ofcourse in a very simplistic stage, it can obviously be related to a buildup or 'expanse' of cell's generating a brain in its most simple form. Like, before there was nothing, now there is existance.

In this same way, the mind of god is born at the beginning of the universal cycle and everything in it begins to expand first at an extreme rate, then as time goes on it slows down and at a certain point, like that of humans, it slowly begins to deteriorate and condense back down untill it inevidibly dies. This, in effect, answers the 'why?' of our universe.

We exist within a concieved reality inside the transendant imagination of god himself. The universe is, for lack of a better description, God.

-----------------------------

Now this essay ONLY scratches the surface. I have a vast amount of writings and revelations on time, the mechanics of the universe, metaphysics and a load of related stuff I've written.. But without making you read tons of stuff, this is probably all you need to know.

Everything happens for a reason. Knowledge is not to be created, it is to be unlocked. If someone was to kill a priest and a nun, know it would have happened for a distinct reason and the next occurance in that time field happens due to this first occurance. Cause and effect.

If a little girl is raped. She might grow up to become a doctor specialising in helping other young girls who are going through what she went through as a child. Yet there are unlimited possibilitys of reason and conclusions.

Everyone is not created equal. Because everyone has a different journey through life set out for them. Life is about learning and experience taken in in preperation for the afterlife. The soul is immortal, our physical mass is like training wheels, or pre school for our concience. You may not believe in god, but you do believe in the universe. And science teaches us god can be related to a perfect supercomputer...(call it a mac if you really must)....

But the idea is, that everything works in harmony throughout this world because everything is set out in a number of laws. Each occurance is scripted, but (having eaten from the tree of knowledge, or realistically, having evolved into a brain so complex we understand right from wrong) the way we choose to respond to each occurance in our lives determines the entire future of occurances.

Its really simple when you think about it. Life is just one big mathamatical equasion....

Now I could go on and on and on forever about every single reason for my conclusions and bringing up large amounts of other theorys, but I have to do a shit.... So BRB

False on both counts. It's numerous stories AND God SUGGEST that you should have slaves, AND approves of slavery.


OK, lets bust out your trusty bible. Everyone else feel free to follow along via Google, or some other Bible refference site or something. You'll witness first hand that god dosen't love and accept everyone equally like you're led to believe.

Well, Lets start at 1 Corrinthnans 14 where he states that all women should remain silent in church and only ask questions to their husbands whne they're home and in private.

Or how about this one where he says no woman should have any authority over any man? This is your sexist mysoginistic god speaking:

And these are jsut two of MANY refferneces. Now how would a god that claims to love everyone equally hold some higher than others? That completely contradicts. As does his approval of slavery which is also in the bible NUMEROUS places

Well he says he oversees all his children and is everywhe and can see everything, so what are you implying, that he's absent minded? GOD?! The "perfect" one?

lmao @ THIS IS IN THE BIBLE supposed to just make u automatically right


all the rules and shit in the Old Testament were old Hebrew laws, and the world changed with the New Testament, thats the whole point of it... so you cant hold the Old Testament relevant to present life

and Nos is right, God never claimed to just sit around and save everybody's lives... who said that was his job?

How am I write or wrong if it's a quote from the bible?? I'm not giving my opinion, I'm QUOTING A SOURCE.



HE DID! He said he answers all prayers. If you pray to have your life saved what great excuse do you have for why he's not there to save someoen who's spreading the Word Of God. Words like 'women should never hold power over men' and bullshit of the sort. Why woudl he not answer their prayers for their lives?

Read the rest of my post before you comment.

That point you made is actually explained in my post...

if you didnt know the bible WAS edited, if anyone has an original version of the bible, they must be moses' cousin or sumthin

God put us here and gave us brains to do wtf we want, he gave us all of it...he cant change free will because he created us and put those rules sort of, so whatever the fuck we do we do, its like one big test go ahead light someone on fire but dont whine when you dont get into heaven :)

yea bla bla there is no heaven and hell etc. i believe there is, you dont

NOBODY WILL WIN, im not trying to change your opinion so dont try to change anyone elses, NOBODY will know until we die simple as that.

peace

Yeah man... Definatly...

Even jesus went from being referenced to as a human prophet with a large family and a wife.... To being a single devine entity.. Or deity...

Religious goons that do shit like that are fucking queer... Its like lying to everyone because they wanna gloss everything up and make it seem like more than it really is.

word, exactly the same here


I already addressed the Old Testament rules issue

1 Corinthians is written by a man, not God. Let me start off with that. Also, I thank you because I have found my new favorite verse.

Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
-1 Corinthians 14:6

:cool:

Anyway, the verses leading up to that verse is talking about different tongues, and how only 2-3 people should talk about the scriptures. It does not say that women are not allowed to speak about the scriptures, but that they are not to talk about it in church. Also women at the time did not go to school, and probably would end up just making fools of themselves. Men are not allowed to do some things women are, does that make them un equal? No, just different. People are created equal, but not the same. There is a difference. It is also a society thing.

Example:
Women can wear tight pants in our community without anyone saying anything.
Guys cannot wear tight pants without being mocked, harassed, etc...

Each sex can do certain things in public, but it all depends on a society and what they consider right and wrong.

Next :)

The original scriptures are in a vault that is secured by the Catholic church. Also, The Bible was translated which can mean misinterpretations, but as for being edited, I have never heard of chapters being edited. I know that certain books were left out, but the verses are only translated.

translated 100+ times, so you might as well say edited

It didn't "explain" anything. You "Theorized". I'm not gonna read someone's "theory" on God since that's not what this thread was intended for.



So now we're getting somewhere. Now that we ALL know that the bible was edited - how do you know what to be LIE ve? Pick and choose? This is the bible - they say you're supposed to follow it to a tee. It's suposedly the book that guides your way of life - yet you have a reason to doubt it's validity??? And you dont' see a problem with that?




Common logic and the basic means to add and subtract will verify this for you right now. Why wait till you die? And "free will" isn't part of God's "plan" son. God says that he had a divine plan that covered every fraction of a moment of everyone's life, down to the smallest detail. I'm sure every time something targic happens to someone, them or those around thme say "it's god's plan" - which means you had NO CHOICE to begin with according to God. So how does Prayer fit into the Plan, if the outcome is already written out, according to God?





1 Corinthians is written by man THROUGH God. The only thing "God" suppsedly wrote himself was the 10 commandments.

Secondly, you're interpreting a scripture that leaves no room for interpretaiton. Choosing how the word of your God is applied in your life is being selectively religious. It's the same logic serial killers have where as "I didnt' kill this person, the knive/gun/bat did" and in their eyes, they're justified. This isn't what "scociety" thinks is right or wrong, it's what the book that told YOU ow to live your life is telling you. Are you saying they're lying or wrong?

And who said that women shouldn't speak scripture?? I quoted what the bible said wher eGod feels that women shouldn't speak in church, or ever have power over men. That's YOUR God talking, not me. - where'd you get anything about speaking scripture?

Its a conclusion based on scientific evidence. Written as an essay theorising on the existance of god.

Bro I have to say..

You can come accross as being real ignorant at times.... Instead of reading it and telling me why you think it isnt correct, you just sit there and go...

Ughh.. He called it a theory, it must be compleatly irrelevant...

And it cant be a time wasting thing either... Cause your quiet happy to sit there and write up gigantic threads on the Q...

Your saying god doesent exist.. I'm giving a response telling you what god is and showing you why he does exist...

Take it or leave it.

I dont believe everything in the bible or what others say God really said because nobody knows God personally...I believe you choose your own destiny BUT he knows everything you're gonna do for instance you have a choice if you want to buy a car or not, if you buy a car...he knows everything that will happen relating to that after that, and if you dont, he knows everything after that etc. etc. and you'll have choices, you can pick the choices but he'll know whats gonna happen, thats what I believe.

People like you are the reason we have wars over bullshit like this, when it comes to religion everyone gets all defensive just keep the shit to yourself, you have NO proof there isnt a god, show me proof there isnt a god...oh somebody kills a shitload of people in a church, that doesnt mean there isnt a god that just means a bunch of people were killed, and at the same time, I have NO proof that god does exist...i believe what i believe, you believe what you believe, but when you start tellin people theyre wrong and you keep trying to prove to them that, it just gets people mad...im not mad but others get sensitive and shit when it comes to this type of shit, just leave it alone and stop trying to prove something you cant prove, and I cant prove it either.

Let me ask you something, how did we learn to add, have common logic...do you believe we evolved from Apes? if so...where did the apes come from...if you can answer that, where did the big bang come from? explosions of that magnitude just dont happen out of thin air, and no scientist can give you 100% proof of it, the universe is too complex to be made off 1 explosion, but thats my opinion im not trying to argue with you or anything.

Where did I say it was wrong? If you think it adressed my post, YOU'RE wrong. If you want to discuss your theory on God, make a thread about it, because what you're talking about is a completely seperate topic. We're talkign about "God" in relation to the Bible, and you're theorizing about god and the universe and time and so on. That's a while seperate topic, and if you want to discuss it, I have no problem discussing it. Simply start a new thread.


Don't feel upset that I didn't mill over your essay.

The Bible is a guide, not a manual.

Also, I don't agree with everything people say. That's just morals. That is why there are so many different kinds of religion. People believe certain things, gather more followers, then become a religion. The difference is if what they do is morally right/wrong, and if it is the truth. How do we know which one is the truth? That is just belief. Like compose said, no one will win or lose, but someone might understand the Christian belief which is good enough.



But smallest detail to God may be when they grow, who dies in their family, etc... It doesn't mean he plans out how many times you are going to breathe in the next 5 minutes. The "Divine Plan" is a plan of life, not how the life is led.



Ugh. Religion, such an ugly thing. Religion is a set of procedures made by man because they think that it is the right thing to do. I recently went back to my old church, and one thing I noticed that I hated is how they made it feel like we are little insects and God is the person going, "Ewwww!!! Humans!!!!" I believe God loves us and wants to help us, but how can he help people who won't trust/believe in him? People who don't ask him for help or forgiveness until they need it? Who don't pray until they have to? Also, your beLIEve thing is kind of childish. It can be spelled beleve, would that make you feel better? No it wouldn't. You would still not trust something unless it was in your hands, so really you are just scared to believe in something you can't see.

1: I understand you feel that way, but God states that your life was PLANNED OUT. As in written form start to finish. You have no choice and no opportunity to deviate from the course according to God, so which is it? Prayer, or Plan? At least one of them is obviously untrue seeing that they're both complete opposites of one another.

2: Who ever said God dosen't exist? I said god isn't HERE. REad the opening statement of this thread, because you're going off into the existance of god and all this - I'm saying that god isn't present.

And on that note, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You feel how you feel and refuse to see otherwise and that's fine. This isn't the thread for you. You're trying to convince me, but I'm not trying to convince you. I'm asking questions and looking at facts that are proven and verified, vs hearsay with no ecidence, witnesses or any other form of proof other than what some miscellaneous person wrote on some scrolls. If that's enough for you to accept it as true, then more power to you.

I said I dont believe in the bible word for word =/

So...

Your saying, that in a thread trying to disprove the existance of god... A post theorising about the existance of god is irrelevant..

See this is why I'm calling ignorance...
Now you can banter on all day about this and that of what the bible says... But the thread topic is still "is anyone out there?" and you state very clearly..


This is ofcourse one of the main reasons I made my post... To answer this.


This is talked about and related to the extract from my theory in my post.


This is talked about and related to the extract from my theory in my post.


While I dont quote the bible or make much reference to it. (and believe me, I could have)... This is answered in my post aswell..

So you see...
Claiming irrelevance to a post that answers every question and statement posed in your innitial thread.... IS IGNORANCE.... You would have to agree with that ... right?

1: Luckily, we're not discussing "many different kinds of religion" we're discussing Christianity and every other division there of in relation to "God" and the Bible.

2: you're assuming. "maybe" You're guessing and filling in data that's the exact opposite of what was stated. "to the smallest detail". There's nothing vague about that. A plan is an orchestrated and timed sequence of events. No where in the definiton of the word "plan" is anything even remotely close to "free will", so how are you guessing all this info that's not there? You're doing the normal thing people do when some facet of their religion is in queston and they guess and make up great reasons this and that happens. If God loves everyone so, why does he say men shoudl keep their wonem subserviant and submissive? And I also notice you didn't pick up that slavery in the bible argument either...

3: How is it childish? That's how it's spelled. The word "believe" has the word "lie" at the center of it. The fact that you even say that you "beieve" something immediately states that you're guessing and having confidence in something you otherwise have no logical reason ot have confidence in. ask a dictionary. You're deviating in all sorts of directions away from the issues. I don't "believe" anything, I either know it or I don't. Facts speak clearly, and any "God" would be BEYOND doubt. Abnormal things would happen every day if he were really here to help you. you're just part of his plan. He loves everythin right? So he loves you, jsut as much as he loves a person who would take your life. He loves you just as much as he loves AIDS and cancer. HE CREATED EVERYTHING. you cna't assume that ANYTHING that happens could possibly be "bad" if it's creaed by a being who's "perfect", since that's the way they designed it and planned it all to work.

Dictionary contains definitions that people have made...how do we know that the words didn't mean something completely different? You are guessing as well. Do you have solid evidence that there is no God? No. Do you have solid evidence proving without a shadow of a doubt that there is a God? No. Nothing is for sure, there are always little factors that can change something.

How do you know what to believe?



Lets see.. this thread discusses God in the Bible and refferences to his points of view so that we all have one common ground to communicate on and see points of one person or another person's POV. We already acknowledging that god exists, and I'll even say that his comments are in the Bible, yet you're talkign about god is in time and the universe and all this other shit that's got jack to do with shit. We're talking about a collection of information we commonly accept and use as the medium for our points of view. You're talking about your theory and your frame of mind about this and that and all this other shit. This takes nothing away from your "essay", it's just irrelevant to this. If you believe god is "out there" and you want to represent that in time and space and what not - fine. That's your theory and your opinion. I'll make a note of it.

It's called trust and judgement.

And the Bible contains words that people have made. Matter fact, it's the SAME words. ALL those words have definitions, coincidentially, all listed in Dictionaries. You make it sound liek it's a completely differnet language, when its in English. Definitions don't change. The same word today meant the same thing 100 years ago, slang excluded. If there's an alternate definition, it's listed in the dictionary as well. You almost make it sound liek the average person isn't smart enough to interpret theor own native tongue.

And "without a shadow of a doubt" is IMPOSSIBLE to someone who's already convinced that anything other than their views of their religion is correct and the only way. If you wanted to know something , you'd ask. You wouldn't proclaim, so to say you have a geenuine interest to see an alternate view is false.

Its fine dude..

You continue living in your own little Idaho where a thread questioning the existance of god is not relevant to a post explaining the existance of god..

hey! I got an idea... Why dont you actually read my post before you make assumptions....

Infact........nah... That would be too logical....

It's a GUESS! a "theory" is just a guess!! You haven't "explained" anything other than your theory. That's not factual, it's just a hypthothesis, an assumtion, a run of the imagination, so why would we discuss it? You don't know if it's right and can't prove if it's correct (which is why it's called a Theory and not a Fact), so why discuss it? Like I said man, if you want a mrettit badge for an essay of a theory in a thread where we're not talking about "Theory" we're quoting, you're barking up the wrong tree.

You are questioning whether I look at both sides?

I know why you question Christianity, because there is so no solid evidence except for a book on if it is true.

Period. You can make up anything else you say, but that reason is why you don't believe it. Also, no it doesn't mean the same thing. Things change, meanings change, and the way people think change. Also, it is a different language. It is called Latin. I have studied a little of it, and if you study any language you know that there are some words in that language that cannot be translated into an English word.

For the intelligence comment, why do you think we have English classes?

Also, you contradicted yourself in the last paragraph. Only, you are convinced that anything you believe is correct, and no one else is right. So really I guess the debate is pointless, because you aren't even going to think that I could be right, where as I consider it, but in the end I still believe in God. Do you even think about other possibilities, or do you just read the paragraphs and try to think of how I'm wrong and not how I might be right?

And when I said next, I was meaning let's move on to the next topic. You just didn't move on so I assumed we weren't going off the subject.

Some of it was passed down, and said in everyday life like dont kill people steal etc. bullshit like that, I just believe if you truly have a good heart god will know this and that will in the end get you into heaven, you dont have to be perfect or follow the bible word for word to show your faith, like Rev said its just like my judgement I believe thats what it is, just because some old guy at the vatican says this is what were supposed to believe doesnt mean ill believe it =/, im not even a christian, i wasnt baptised, i just believe in Jesus cuz it was passed down like that essentially, and I dont feel like spending time studying other religions when I think theyre all the same, whether you believe in buddha, jesus, whatever as long as you're a good person you'll live a good afterlife, thats what I think...=/

Ughh thats it..

I'm not even gonna keep arguing... Dooms I hate to say it, but you are ignorant as fuck bro... And merit points?

Dont let your head grow too big.... I was looking for atleast SOME decent conversation about the existance of god (which is what this thread is about)..

All I got was ignorance and refusals to read what I had to say on this topic.... In future I'll now know exactly what to expect when replying to one of your threads.

Fair nuff. You can cry your self to sleep over the emotional damage, then realize that you're saying God exists and so have I and so's everyone else in this thread, so WTF is the problem? What could you possibly be trying to convince everyone in this thread of when we all agree that he exists? Damn son, stop being such a cry baby, wipe the tears from your eyes, and READ.



1: that's half the reason. The other half is that evidence points AGAINST the participation of a God helping ANYBODY. Statistically, people who pray stand the identical chance of healing/recovering or overcoming any obstacle as a person who dosen't pray, and you can excercize this right in the comfort of your own home right where you're sitting.

2: Nope. "The Bible" we've been reffering into and out of this entire time isn't written in Latin my friend, it's written in Olde English, which is an offshoot of the english that magistrates royalty, etc at the time spoke, and used throught the King James editions of the Bible. Not Latin. That's an entire DIFFERENT bible that not one of us here has quoted or even discussed since, so where are you getitng this from? I notice every time I ask "where are you getting this from" you don't ever reply. Why?

3: I take everything you said into consideration, since I'm ASKING QUESTIONS. Just that none of it is convincing since there are no facts. Most of your rebuttals are based on "maybe" and "I believe", when I'm trying to ask about facts you can prove. If you cna't prove it, I won't believe it, and that's all there is to it. Not accepting hearsay in the face of a complete lack evidence makes me ignorant?? I thought that gave me "logic". The same logic one uses to decypher truth from a lie. But if that's "ignorance" lmao, ok, I'm ignorant.



dosen't the bible say that God is a vengeful God? Didn't he smite 2 cities back to back and unlease a series of plagues? That sounds liek someone who's really not kidding when they tell you to do or not do something. I'm not saying you're dumb or anything, I'm asking how it is that you came to that belief when there's so much evidence to the contrary?

Well, Christianity is a belief, what do you expect?

Again, you are wrong. I have been in a Lutheran school for 7 years, I've studied the Bible and it's history more then you have. The Bible was written in Latin, that is how Martin Luther got involved. Research it man, the first Bible was translated from Latin to German. Do you really want to get into the history?

That's nice, but that's not what I said. Here it is again:



I didn't see you quote any bible passage in latin at all, and I know I didn't, so where are you getting this? Oh yeah.. I notice every time I ask "where are you getting this from" you don't ever reply. Why?

Listen smartass..



Boom..
Why dont YOU read?
I post because your entire view of god is naieve. You act as though he should be some little man that sends a lightning bolt down to strike people who are doing something wrong...

Dooms, you often have your facts straight. But you arnt much of a thinker.

Thats your downfall.