Originally Posted by Terumoto

The egg analogy doesnt really describe what i'm talking about. Its more like a cup. If a cup is full, it is heavier, it can be spilled, it is harder to carry, and its movements are limited. The usefulness of a cup is in its emptiness. An empty cup can hold whatever it wishes, and if it has no desire to be full its contents spilling out would not affect it. Or like a house. A house is only useful because it is empty. Fill a house with pointless crap and it becomes hard to live in the house.

But think about it, even if you DID type me out your whole life story, everything that drives you, and everything that has made you up up to this point, I would still be able to say "Thats not who you are. Thats your life story, a lot of memories, and how you feel about things. Who are you, beyond that?"

OK. So you're not sad at all when you don't have money? You dont feel at all bad when you cant get any pills or weed and youre bored as fuck? It's little things. Not things on a huge scale, small scale suffering like this you experience every day without knowing it. You wouldnt feel bad if nothing ever worked out for you, and you ended up as a cheap labourer? If at 30 you had terrible back problems, and were horrendously overweight? You would be completely happy because that is gods plan for you? It wouldnt affect you if you found out you were infertile, and couldnt have children, because its gods plan? I doubt that. You cant deny that you suffer, you suffer every day. Everybody suffers every day. Whether it is because they miss their gf, or they want new clothes or a new car, or a better job, or a child, or something tasty to eat. That is a kind of suffering. The english word for it doesnt really have the same meaning as what im trying to convey.

Did god really give you that personality though? Surely you agree that it would be illogical to believe that the kind of god you believe in (very different to christian god) has a set plan for everybody, that cannot be changed. You are saying that every single person on this earth has a fate that cannot be reckoned with, which is under this "god"'s control. Name one thing in existence, ever, that gives the slightest inkling that that belief is true. There is nothing. Name one thing that, because it doesnt exist or is not visible, makes "fate" a probable theory. Man, arent you meant to be logical? I completely understand your logic in believing in a higher power, but fate is just imagination. The only thing the god would have given you, is existence.

Your self is a conditioned construct. It has nothing to do with your true nature. Meaningless purposes such as making money, or getting married, what do they actually have to do with existence? What is money? What is marriage?

Look at a child. All they know is their tiny little world. They only want the food they like, they are fussy, they want meaningless toys. If they see something in a shop they want, it is the most important thing in the world to them at that time. Until they get it, they are suffering, all they want is that toy. When they finally get the toy, they enjoy it for a while, if it breaks they cry, but they eventually will become bored of it and want something new. This new thing becomes so important to them, all they want is that new toy. Then the cycle repeats. Sound similar to anything?

Look at a baby. But use your imagination, and imagine that a baby was physically and mentally able to perform simple tasks, but was at the same mental level as a baby is normally. What would it do? When it is hungry, it will eat. When it is thirsty, it will drink. It doesnt care about what it eats or drinks, it just fulfills its basic needs. If it is restless, it moves, if it is bored, it looks around and marvels at the things in the world. It doesnt want anything useless, it doesnt need anything useless. It has no personality, no self, no ego. You could stand there insulting the baby, but it wouldnt affect it. You could tell the baby it will never succeed in life, or that its ugly, or that you are gonna fuck its mom. Do you think the baby will care? It will hear the tones of your voice, take them in, but not retain them, and continue to just chill.

Thats a very simplified analogy, but that is what I mean. It is more advantageous to have no self or no ego than it is to have a self and an ego. You might beg to differ, but that is your self thinking of the gay crap it could get in this world.

Its like your head. Where is your head from the standpoint of your eyes? Well, its nowhere. What color is it (dont say "skin color" -_-)? Is it black? Is it white? Its none of those. It's no color. It is as if from your point of view, your head doesnt exist. It is transparent. You dont notice your head, but in fact everything you are seeing and hearing is inside your head. Your eyes cant process the information they receive, all they can do is pass it on to the head. The nerves receive the impulses, and an image is constructed based on the stimuli acting on your eyes. Your head is operating as if it wasnt even there, but it is actually the cause of everything you see and hear. Upon shedding the self and the ego, it is as if you are working so efficiently in the universe that you are transparent. Can you even imagine it? Imagine if yourself as you know it was gone but you were still existing.

But anyway, yeah.

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Ok.. So what I gather..

Is that you believe the form your existing in right now, is compleatly unimportant and illusionary.

How in any way does that effect the fact that you are who you are, and you do exist on this planet in your currant form, with all the memories, experiences and quirks that build up your personality?

In every day life, your memories and past experiences effect every decision you make. Why is it such so hard for you to realise that what makes you who you are, is a wide range of factors, from the time you were born in relation to the solar system, the name you have and all experiences in life.

If you ask someone who they are, obviously their gonna give a superficial response detailing certain aspects that are most important to them. If you really wanna know who someone is, you would need to know every single thing that has ever happened to them. Because our brains are full of experience and knowledge that forms our self.

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Using the same analogy as you innitially used about the cup, if the cup had nothing in it, it would just be a bit of shaped glass or plastic.

Its the contents that give the cup character and give it purpose.

After 20 years of being alive, my cup isnt even close to being full, but what it already holds are parts of what make me who I am. And all we have in this life is who we are.

Originally Posted by Nostradamus

Heres an example you will be able to relate to.

Take Siddhartha Gautama for instance, in his early life he lived in numorous luxurious palace residences, he was handed on a silver platter anything he could ever ask for, he had different houses for different seasons, he had gold laced everything and never needed to stress himself or work hard at all.

Then when he was 29 I believe, he actually went through a poor area. And thats what lead him to think "fuck.....ive been living such a bullshit life" and he gave away everything he owned to live a life of searching for enlightenment and teaching.

NOW-- Think about this... If he was poor when he grew up and the poverty of the small surrounding villages of his area didnt come as a shock to him, he didnt recieve any form of education and had to work long days to survive..

Do you think he would of been the same person as he was when he made those drastic life changes?

No. Because the contents of his 'cup' would have been compleatly different.

The reason I used him as an example is because I believe its his 'religion' that your getting most of these philosophies from.

I can agree with a lot of things, but I will never say that what builds the character of a person is an illusion or irrelevant. And to just go off one more of your points, yes there is suffering in life. And that is also another element that builds character. If a person lived life with no suffering, there would be an entire side to life they would never have experienced which would make them or the 'contents of their cup' a compleatly different mix.

If I've missed your point in any way then I'm sure youll make another big post to tell me where and how I went wrong... But I dont believe anything I've said here is misguided in the slightest. But w/e.......Take your best shot.