Yeah, if God's miracles were given so direct to everyone, then there would be no point to have faith, but He isn't, because faith is the only way to get into heaven. I'm sure some people feel like God has abandoned them, but it's because they decided not to have any more faith. There are thousands of incidents that man can never explain, but if you look carefully, and very carefully, you can figure it out.

As well as that, there will be a lot of people who despise, spread great teachings of opposition, and people who seem to claim they know the true way, but that's because it's supposed to happen, as it is described in the good book. So that's why faith has to be important, or else you might fall for one of these.

So, some of you may feel like there's no point and truth in God, because all that is said, are just fulfilling what is already written.



Wordness to that too. Just because you go in a garage doesn't mean you're a car. Everybody sins and are filled with hypocrisy, but the only one who we can look to is God.

Since there's a God, there's a Devil as well. You can doubt and not believe, which is called a sort of temptation. Tempation from the Devil, which will only fulfill prophecy. These temptations come in different forms, and can be very convincing causing so many people to fall for them, at the same time thinking it's correct or alright, not realizing the truth.

As said in the book of Revalations, there will be a time excatly like this, when people are full with corruption. Maybe we're not there yet, but in my opinion, I think it would wise to prepare, and a time like this can mean anytime.

I don't know about you guys, but incase this boat tips over, I'd prefer to be wearing a life jacket...

Saying that God is the answer to everything unexplained is absurd. Think back into history, when scientists thought that life just sprung out of nowhere. They believed that it was because of God that if you left rainwater in a birdbath for a fortnight, there would be all kinds of organisms and shit in there... After a while that guy (I think his last name was Boylle.. cant remember) found out that when isolated from oxygen, no lifeforms developed. With the development of light and then electron microscopes they discovered that spores and small cells and shit in the air merely found a suitable environment and reproduced. There was no God to it... This is just an example... But this frame of mind can be applied to a whole lot of things.

There are a whole lot of other religions and spiritual pathways, and you're saying they are all wrong and christianity (a religion based on faith) is right. What if another religion based on faith's scriptures also stated there will be other spiritualities to tempt you, but they are all wrong and this is the only right religion? Then according to whatever that religion may be, Christianity would be wrong. And someone from another religion who says that is just as valid as you, from christianity who states that. How can you be sure who is right?

You're citing Revelations eh? I've heard it all before. Howbout this one:
"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the Earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. Then I saw another angel coming up from the East, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given the power to harm the land and the sea. "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of god."
Revelations 7, verses 1-3.

So according to the very book you are getting your snippet of info from, your mind (at the time this book was written, foreheads or anything to do with the head also meant brain, mind, mentality, etc.) has been sealed by God, and as soon as every servant of God has been sealed, then angels will hurt the land, sea, and some trees.

After the sixth trumpet has been sounded (in case you amazingly devoted christians dont know, the sounding of the seven trumpets brings armaggedon, different negative things are prophesized to happen as each trumpet is sounded) those very angels that put a seal on every christian in the world, are supposed to kill a third of them and send them to hell.

Thats a great end of the world ya got there, goddy boy. Bet they didnt teach you that one in sunday school.

And what kind of christian are you? Protestant? The same protestants that ignore half of the bible as they see fit?

Anglican? The same anglican that was started by a roman catholic king that wanted to divorce his wife and couldnt so created a new branch of christianity?

or roman catholic? The same trusty roman catholic religion that told people 400 years ago that they needed to "donate" to the church to get to heaven, and that if you didnt do what they wanted (which was usually gay bullshit due to the fact only like 2 guys in entire villages/towns could even read the bible) then you were on a one way trip to hell.

Which one are you? :thumbup:

This society/humankind has been always been brought up to think logicaly, There should always be a reason for something occuring! right, This exact mind state leads alot of people not to believe in a god high above the earth, Because there has never been any real strong proof in the last 2000 years of why we should think there is a god,and the proof we do have has been manipulated and fucked around the block 100 times. and there's not really and super Natural things that ever happen that arnt explained.

There are soo many things we as a society dont know, Like where the Universe stops? Maybe the Universe is just part of something way bigger? Think about this it takes a NASA space ship 6 months to travel to mars.. Like what the fuck??? whats beyond that.. Were just a pea in the pod, and wont know anything until we die.. But i know one thing, I can not imagine not being able to think.. so i really believe there is something other then this life..

Personally, I thought the whole God / Devil thing was to get people to act the way they should, way back, in the year 300, do you think people would behave and be nice if they knew they would just rot in the ground after they die? I think since the law enforcement and government back then would probably be easier to get away with (I mean if you went out int he middle of the night to kill someone in the year 300, who would know?) It's like they wouldn't go out to kill because they knew they would go to hell and burn.

But now that we have a good government, people will behave whether there is a god or not, because they will get caught easily with witnesses all over, cameras and such, and they would be thrown in jail or executed.

I'll believe God when theres proof. The catch is the word 'Believe'

You mom says? Okay, what proof do you have?
One thing I don't like is that, there is no 'P-r-o-o-f'

Would you be pist if you spent every sunday going to church, giving up things by fastening (Or whatever the hell it's called) and praying every night, and being good, donating money to the church, helping old blind ladies with a wooden leg and a broken arm and a retarded dog cross the street, if you end up dying and god ain't real, and there is no heaven or hell? Wouldn't you feel you could of done something more with your life like, practice rap more or something?

Well, to answer your last question first, out of those choices, I would be my own kind. A group is made up of people, but it doesn't not make the person. :thumbup: (I thought that looked cool)

Okay, so you say just because of that because of some examples of science, that you think God isn't real? I'm lost, in what way does that show there is no God? Have you taken some time to reconsider that science is the form in which God used to create and forge just about everything you see, hear, feel, etc? If maybe I got this wrong, you can feel free to tell me what you really mean.

About other religions, I'm sure there are other ones that could be based on faith as well. Yes, we might share the same principles, but faith and prophecy of what's coming is what makes me believe mine. This is a "what if" type of question, and until you give me some examples, I won't really reconsider or further back up my thinking.

The time of Armageddon is a time of relief for true Christians, the ones who actually follow the word, not the ones who filled their life with contradictions and hypocrisy. I'm sure God knows the future, and the earth isn't going to last all that long(we have pollution, falling resources, population problems), so God has to bring an end. We as people cannot really fix this problem, and God didn't come to fix, but to save from this problem. He's not going to kill Christians, but to save them. The seals are there for showing who is to be saved from judgement or not.
There will be more to see and know when the time comes, because I really won't know how it's excatly supposed to be like.

Christianity is plagued, yes, by people who do bad things. Hypocrites, pharisees. The bible even says somewhere that there'd be people who carried God's name, and use it for the wrong purpose(Pharisees, Crusades, wrong things Christians do). So, don't confuse God with man. We are made in His image, but not like Him. The reason why God is so strict, "non-human," and makes sure what we do what is correct, is so that we can be saved from Hell.

You're own kind? So thats basically protestant. A christian who ignores a whole lot of the bible, the book you also get your beliefs from.

The scientific example I gave wasnt meant to disprove the existence of God. You said that a lot of things in the world are unexplained, and God is the answer to them. I disputed that statement. I'm not an idiot man, read some of the first shit I said in this thread to someone talking about evolution.

Exactly, and a lot of other religions ARE based on faith. And a lot of them also have prophecies and shit. How are you so sure what you believe is right when "faith and prophecy," something evident in a whole lot of other religions, is what makes you believe yours? See its this type of thing that annoys me. 95% of christians just say "I dont need to give reasons for my beliefs to non believers etc etc, read the bible the answers will come to you" and shit like that. You sure as fuck need to back up your beliefs, cos otherwise you're bullshitting yourself. If you grew up in India, I bet you you'd be a hardcore Hindu. If you grew up in China, I bet you'd be a hardcore Buddhist. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME as to how you are so sure christianity is true. Because most Christians I ask to tell me WHY they believe, tell me to read the bible, which I have many times and have studied... But i'm not a christian. They seem to have read or been told little verses and chapters and shit and are sure of what they believe. How the fuck can you be sure if you havent read your OWN RELIGIONS scriptures properly?

Have you ever even considered another religion? Go read up on buddhism, it sure makes a lot more sense than christianity. Buddhism is basically a pathway to enlightenment. Enlightenment is a state of pure spiritual and mental fulfillment. The Buddha taught that desire is the cause of Dukkha (Sort of a word for suffering, but the word suffering doesnt quite give the scope of description that "dukkha" is supposed to). Anyway, take away desires, you wont need anything, you wont suffer, and you will be fulfilled. Easier said than done.

Now tell me, what makes more sense,
-What I just told you about buddhism.
or
-believing in something you have never seen or experienced, believing in a holy book that has been twisted and changed over 2000 years, believing that everything happens because of some divine being that came to earth in the form of a man who could walk on water and revive the dead, believing that this "god-man" was killed and then 3 days later came back to life, and because of that our sins are forgiven. If you dont believe in all that shit, the bible clearly states you are going to hell.

How is god strict at all? How does he make sure what we do is correct? He doesnt do shit. Everyday christians kill, steal, lie, rape... But according to the bible if they ask forgiveness they can get to heaven. Thats not strict. That is what christians call a display of gods immeasurable love.

Unfortunately, that immeasureable love doesnt quite reach like 75% of the world who arent christian. If god loves all mankind, why does some poor etheopian boy who has never heard of breakfast, lunch and dinner, let alone the bible and christianity, have to go to hell? Why do people with mental disorders that cant understand the bible or respond to stimulus have to go to hell? Theyre probly less sinful than 90% of the christians out there. So why does god make them go to hell??? And dont tell me some bullshit like "omg i learned in sunday school they go 2 heaven anyway" ... It says IN THE BIBLE if you do not believe in christ, you go to hell.

Truth is christianity is full of holes. And im not trying to disprove the existence of a greater being. Im just pretty sure that greater being isnt the "God" that you know and love. There may not even be a greater being. Dont get me wrong, im a spiritual person... Just not religious in a sense that I have a specific religion that I adhere to.

^^^^^Whoa. dats deep man.

Me personally, i think that there's so many points that could be argued for and against the existence of of a God that there truly is no simple answer.
On one hand there are so many unexplained things that happen in the world that it can all have a logical explination, but on that same note maybe its because there there is a whole lot more to the world than we as mankind are able to put a valid explanation to, why we choose to use religion as a way of finding the easiest answer. The same way back in ancient times, they used myths as a way of explaining things that they did not have the means to explain (things that we, how many thousands of years later can explain), maybe we too are not capable of understandin things that future generations will be able to.

Peace.

i dont got time to go in detail and drop knowledge on you...... but listen..... everything you were taught about GOD in sunday school is a lie.........


The Catholic Church/ Papacy........ is trying to become a world church....... in conjuction wit these united states....... to rule the world..... like it was in Daniels day...... The Catholic Church...... doesnt want you to have a releationship wit christ..... they want you to pray to saints and confess your sins to man rather than Christ...... in prayer...... Judgement is going on right now in heaven...... the Books are open and God is Judging the saints.... we are living in the last days.... Anti-Christ = Papacy........ Eternal life = personal relationship wit Jesus....

its all history brotha....... i could drop maddddddddddd knowledge on you....... but i'll let the smoke clear from these bombs i just droped...... and if you want to know more.... i mean really know more....... i can point you in the right direction......

GOD IS REAL

and

HE WILL COME AGAIN


SOON


just be ready dog....... be ready.....

and all this quoting Revelations needs to STOP..........


Revelation is a book about the last days....... and is to be studied along wit Daniel..... because the two books mirror eachother and provide a clear and full understanding of what is to happen nearing the end of earths history....


Go to Amazingfacts.com

there is a lot information there..... and im sure you will all find the answers yall are looking for......

I gotta admit, that's pretty deep and filled with several points. I haven't really read some of the other stuff that you posted, so if I didn't understand, then my bad.
Okay, you kinda gave me an example to what you mean. Of course a lot of Christians are going to say that read the bible it has the answers, because that's their source of value. Though that provides some answers, I'll back up without using it. I don't know if you'll believe me, but I've seen it work.


I know there might be some other religions that use the system of faith and religion, but the thing what makes me believe is because I've seen results. Results that a lot of every-day people in the states(Athiests, Agnostics, other major religion groups, even "Christians") call luck, the obvious, facts, etc, because they never seem to look outside the circle. It's just that I actually tried, actually, believing, and it works.
Sometimes I had to wait awhile, but the thing was I prayed and in the end it worked. It didn't just magically appear out of nowhere, but by having my own sense of faith the whole way. The point is in the end was where it counted, and even little things through faith seemed to work, and a lot of people never seem to look at the better side, causing them to never see the miracles, but I happened to look.
Miracles are supposed to happen only to what is around you. Think about it, if someone you didn't know survived from dying in a great disaster, a lot of people would be like "whoa, lucky guy man!" What I seem to realize instead is that he was saved through God's will, maybe as someone who prayed, or someone who has been chosen to recieve another chance, because someone else had faith. I just seem to count my blessings, knowing that others don't. It's a small way of trying to show my proofs, but since it seems to work on what revolves around me, then it works.


Every action had it's consequences, God is loving, giving me what I need through faith, but that doesn't mean I was some all perfect person who thought highly of myself, I've been punished too. In fact, so many others have been as well. A lot of "Christians" have tried to use Christ's name, but used it for glory, and in the bible, it says that they were punished.
It just applies to everday life. We don't really know how someone will think, so judging by how they acted, gives real believers a bad name. A lot of Christians are proven waaay dead wrong, because they used God in bad ways. Do we know their thoughts? No, we see only for what has been spoken and what has happened. Maybe they were using God for their own selfish glorious good, and etc. So, don't say that all Christians are bumbling fools, a lot are, but not all. I'm still learning about my religion.
The bible is going to be complicated and not make sense, but God made that so that others who choose wrong paths on purpose may not ruin it.


(You'l have to refer to what I talked about miracles and why I believe on this part)
And since I happen to believe in what is for me, I realize then after that is that the bible can be full of truths. I have faith in the hidden messages of the bible, so it allows me to believe what is said, knowing what came first was my own acknowledgement of what God has given me. So through what has happened, I believe in the Bible, which will make me want to state some things from it.
Jesus said that we must have a pure mind like innocent children. Mentally challenged people, kids in other countries who walk 5 miles to school, and maybe, just maybe, those who have never heard the word of God (the last one, I know only God himself can answer it). These types of people fit into a pure childish mind, they can't really decide their own fate, they're innocent as a child like I said. And, if I remember, God said in the bible, in which I believe through my own experiences, that if a child(who we know as innocent) should die, he would take them to heaven.
I didn't learn it from sunday school, I learned it from reading the book myself. The book is what I believe, because I know from my own past of what has happened to me. This gives me proof to why I believe in my God.
So, if I in anyway say anything hypocritical, wrong, or messed up, know that it's because I'm still a growing Christian, and that Christianity shouldn't be dissed on just because of one person.

So basically, you believe because of proof like everyday miracles that other people cant see. It doesn't make sense. Say I prayed for rain everyday for like a month and then it rained. Doesnt mean God did it, it just means the sun shone on bodies of water long enough to make enough water vapor to create the clouds which rained... If someone survives getting stabbed, doesnt mean God did it. It means the attacker had bad aim. This argument will never end though, cos you could just say "God gave the attacker bad aim so he wouldnt kill them so its a miracle."

You say God gives you what you need through faith. Thats just because thats how you think of it. If you were a Muslim you would be thinking the same way about Allah, if you were an aethist you would be ignoring it all completely and thanking yourself for what you have.

But man, those children grow up. They grow up surrounded by disease, poverty, violence, death, hatred and war. They sin so much, and maybe they wouldnt if they had heard the word of God, but they still go to hell. It says that in the bible.

And yo, you really shouldnt be believing things blindly. You should be questioning your beliefs. Because I dont know if christianity is true, but a lot of people seem to be so sure of it. It seems that ignorance is bliss with christians. Granted, if you have read the bible and studied it, I will respect your decision. But for most people its just a matter of growing up in a christian family or something. They dont know its right, and maybe their parents were the same, growing up as a christian and believing blindly, its an endless cycle.

I Know This Was A While Ago, But U Cant Look At The Church And God As The Same Thing.

Kids Being Bored In Church Proves That Faith Is Fake?

Endless cycles...dang,lol, that's what's happening with this conversation.

Well, the miracles are supposed to be like that. It just depends on how you interpret it. They come in just about any form. It's part of a system or something that we can never turly understand. Just different points of view that we each see.

I don't believe blindly, in fact, I think of the people with no hope as well. I probably will never be able to explain, but I'm certain there will be an explanation somewhere. I questioned that very same thing ever since I was young as to where I was the only child around who could think such things. But what I call faith and expectations, and what you call a sort ignorance in some cases is what cancels it out. It makes me wait for an answer that I know will come. The rest of this I can't explain, because I've either said or don't know.

All of this, they are just interpretations that are hard to find, as I said earlier. I'll take your word, I will question more often, as it helps me to understand better. Moses questioned at times, so did so many others. Faith is in a way related to questions and doubts, and it really can be said that all questions have their answers.

Word. Well religion is basically just a different outlook on life. So its all good. I'm just really skeptical.

But do you know how people can feel as though they have a close relationship with God/Jesus? Shit don't make sense. The best answer i've gotten (which was actually from a biology professor) was that Jesus died, so it allows them to have a relationship with God.

But wtf @ that...

according to god there is no hell...if every1 is to be welcomed with open arms and forgiven for 'mistakes'...then why would someone go to hell if they are forgiven?

No. Thats according to you misreading the bible.

ok u definitely got it twisted...its like this.....

....God welcomes you with open arms, but it's your decision to follow Him and go to heaven or not follow Him and go to hell.....

^god has no ethnicity...he has no skin color...hes not a human being and shouldnt be reffered to as a human being...he is a spirit, if he wants to be seen hell be seen he can take any form he wants...he can be black,white, tan, clear, invisible etc.

and do you truley believe

germs turned to little leaf things on the bottom of the ocean
the little leaf things turned into little fish things
little fish things turned into big shark things
big shark things turned into weird lizard things
wierd lizard things turned into snake things
snake things turned into land animal things like pigs and shit
pigs turned into horses and other types of land animals and shit
all of those turned into monkeys coinciding with elephants and giraffes
then monkeys turned into human beings...

^that makes absolutely no sense...you dont go from a germ to a human being sorry...evolution is stupid and makes no sense...human beings should be evolving as we speak but we stay the same every generation, evolution does exist but to its own species...they dont cross boundaries with each other unless your fucking with DNA, cloning, or mixing

SMH, god is not a human being.

There is proof god created the earth. What I think is strange is mars and what not. The bible says little about outer space. So I have always wondered about that. Other than that, I think that god is the creator.

Aight here's my veiws.

the bible:
the stories in the bible could of been involved in what I call
a "whisper effect".Which similar to the indians storytelling
One would tell a story and pass it down,but doing so they would change
one detail.Another theory of mine is constant glorification of events.
For example noahs ark.How could he collect 2 of every animal?
I mean not to mention the fact that there are billions of animals.
Onto this one little ark,but the cooporation to it?I mean come on.
Now with david and goliath.Read the bible and notice David's birth
was on the SAME DAY that he slayed goliath?Possible? I think not.

God:
To me is mainly a confort figure.He supposed to put our questions to rest.
The only defence to all of the unanswerable questions is "have faith".
I mean if he was real the "tests" he gives us are overwhelmingly cruel.
He would vanquish someones life just to "prove if you're loyal".
Another thing,if he knows the future why does he need to test you?


"The lord?":
One simple statement.If we're all god's children why
is he the only one called god's son?

peace.

Back in that time when the bible was written they had no belief
that an outer space even existed.So if god spoken to them they
would have known,correct?

ok if you read in 1 Samuel David did not kill Goliath on the day he was born........

Thats EXACTLY what I see.

Hold up leme get my bible.

yeah get your bible...jus playin

I just talked to REv.And our bibles are different.how could our bibles be different?
Think man.This isn't a childrens bible.

i have a lot of thoughts on this issue, some of which have already been posted in other threads. here are my thoughts on the matter:

- "god" is a theory of creation, but by the same theory there would have to be a more powerful being to create god, and an endless line of increasingly powerful gods to create the next- the theory contradicts itself, and therefore isn't true
- what is god's motive for creating the universe?- the theory that god just decided to create people and when they die they will go to another world made by him for souls does not explain itself, there is no reason to make life, end life, and continue it- the only way for this to make sense is if mankind, and all life, is really being used for something more important, that somehow, our existence is tied to the "real" world that our creator is a part of. of course, the existence of that world is also unexplained...
- the world is too random to have been carefully planned by an all-knowing being. if god had decided to make life for some reason, why only on a handful (or possibly only one) of the millions of planets that he created- and why make the others unsuitable for life?
- if god really did interfere with our world at one point (the explanation for the "prophets" that gave us all we know about god), why doesnt he/she/it continue to guide us (physically, not in our mind, as many religions claim) in the path that we are meant to follow. and why not interfere sooner?
- the story of creation would be guessed at by anyone who didnt know. as this thread proves, humans are too curious about the mysteries of life to be satisfied without answers. in ancient civilizations, with no advanced science or communication, it makes sense that creation stories are passed down among generations, and eventually become religion. after all, many different cultures and religions have been made, all of them cite proof of the miracles that can be worked by their god(s). these stories are likely to gain a following- people in hard times would love to know that there is a life after this one where they will live eternally without the everyday struggles that they experience on earth. this gives hope, and people who lead lives without hope are eager to embrace it.
- science has given, and continues to give, explanations of phenomenons once described as miracles. theories about creation, which cannot be proven, but only explained, fail to convince a society that has always believed in a god. few people want to, or are able to believe that their explanation of life, their moral compass, and their hope for immortality was merely a story. naturally, they demand proof- proof which, like the theories of religion, cannot be proven. religion is the one surviving story, an unbased explanation, that cannot be proven wrong by science. no matter how much the theories make sense, they are no more proven than the miracles described in holy scriptures, and much less optimistic. it is hard for people to give up on their hope on a mere theory.

as you can tell, i don't believe in god. i really don't mind if people do- not being devoted to a religion, i have no theories that people who dont believe what i do are eternally condemned to suffer. to me this makes sense- to many other people, it probably won't. i just hope that religious devotion will not inspire any of you towards violence, or towards hate. that is not the principle that it i based upon. if it helps to morally guide mankind, then maybe, whether it is true or not, religion is helpful.

^^any responses to that?

anyone........?

Who knows......

i belive firmly in god..its just i dont think i'm as as active in god as i should be....i hsoudl be going too church and youth studies but i have no exuse its cuz i'm lazy i need too start going

You dont need to go to that stuff to be a christian.

OMB's knowledge made me a bonafied athiest.

I wanna answer this again cause it REALLY proves me right.
Proof that christianity is human made. Shit back then people thought
that you could fall off the earth. The bible doesn't speak on outer space
due to people not knowing of any other world.. I feel smart.

:thumbup:

Oh Indeph, I told you, I'm taking you to Heaven with me... the Bible is translated in so many languages, so there will be loss of a few words and such. The Bible was never meant to be taken very literal, it's a guide basically.

And Atticus, what in the world, when someone dies that does not mean God killed them or God was punishing them. God knows what is bound to happen. But it's because we are given a free will (our own choices), so that the choices WE make is the results to each 'test' we go through. You won't learn your mistake if you know what was going to happen in the end. And everyone sins, made mistakes and did something wrong even Jesus Christ. So, I'm tired of people blaming someone's death on God. Everyone dies. If we can't bare something, then we won't be going through it. Anything done to you can be worse.

@ OMB's Brain statement
I have dreams of people dying and other tragedies every night. Some times I don't want to sleep because I get tired of spirits trying to fight me, that used to live in my old house. I'm not thinking bout people dying before I sleep or tragedies, and I sure in the hell ain't thinking bout no spirits that I don't know.

So according to some of you, every brain just works off of nothingness but when it shows things that really happen and I wake up with bruises and panting that's from just resting? *sigh*

God know what He doing, believe or don't believe. When you die, you will find out. I wish people wouldn't take everything so 'concrete'. We aren't meant to know everything that's why we are cursed with pain and suffering.

And compose is right, God can be in ANY shape or form who cares what skin color he had. God is a father, with us being his children he can only GUIDE you to do what he considers is right.

If your mom and dad told you to be in the house before curfew and you showed up later, then you disobeyed them. It's the same way with God it's your choice to listen or keep being hard-headed and run into trouble.