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Well I did my I-Search (6 page report on something your interested in) on hip-hop and many places where I found information says that the roots of hip hop come from west african poetry... I'm sure I could find it or w/e but I'm too lazy. |
Meh, just found this, peep it...
For anyone to even try to insinuate that Hip Hop is not of a complete and unique African/ African American tradition is an insult to everyone who truly loves the art. While it is true that all people who enjoy, buy, write about and participate in the culture TODAY are of different races- in the beginning it was black. Rap music, is African oral poetry. It has been traced through rock, jazz, the blues and gospel to originate in West Africa. West Africa is where a majority of the first so-called slaves ( they were prisoners of war) were kidnaped from. This is documented in intmate detail by Dr. Kwaku Person-Lynn in his presentation "Rap Music: Afrika to Hip Hop". It can be purchased by Spirit Flight Productions at PO Box 2946 Inglewood, CA 9030. I don't remember how much the tape is- I just own one. |
Yes... Connections, like I said..
Kool Herc was the first to sample loops and rap over them which is the closest form of the begginnings of rap as we know it today... I've done my research too..:) |
Poetry:
The art or work of a poet. Poems regarded as forming a division of literature. The poetic works of a given author, group, nation, or kind. A piece of literature written in meter; verse. ^most people write rhymes in this fashion...taking careful notice to syllables and all....same thing with some poems Prose that resembles a poem in some respect, as in form or sound. ^...is this not waht music songs are?...and YES prose can be sung, before yu try and correct me The essence or characteristic quality of a poem. A quality that suggests poetry, as in grace, beauty, or harmony: the poetry of the dancer's movements. ^if its stating poetry can be in the way sum1 dances...why cant it be in rap music??? News Flash: A Poem Can Be A Ballad....And Ballads Are Made To Be Sung...And This Directly Relates To Rap...Becuase The Line Between Singin And Rappin Is Thin...Nowadays...THEREFORE....anything basically dealin wif vokal music...is a fuckin form of poetry.... |
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Well all I'm trying to say is that, I'm not wrong :thumbup: |
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Oh shut up you moron.. Rap and poetry are related... BUT RAP IS NOT A FORM OF POETRY... For fuck sake... I'm not arguing with someone of your intelligence... You are going round and round making the same points that have been implemented already into the opposing argument.. What a fucking twot.. Get your opinions straight loser... |
Thread turned interesting.
Nos First of all, It wasnt my intentions to disrespect your opinion. I was mearly fucked off at your attempt to make me seem in-coherant to what i was talking about. Your first post, I agree with parts. We both have our own veiw on certain things,but in that post I have to admit I agree with alot of what you say. But it wont change my point of veiw that rap is poetry. Real rap,you explained how 50 cent and blah blah are rappers makign money. Bro, Im not out to make money from rap.Rap music was originaly about expressing yourself in a poetic form(refer to anxietys post about african poetry being the first step in rap) not about the money. I am going to take rap back to its roots,with a next generation twist.Hence the reason why I stated that rap TO ME is poetry. Let me say it again,rap to me is not 50 cents repeating the same thing each song just with a diffrent beat and a diffrent flow. Rap to me is self expression,lifes outlook,a release passage to get what evers on my brain off. Same thing poetry is to many people. It all boil's down to self exression in a creative musical form. I guess they are not one in the same,but there diffrences are very few. I would write a essay on this shit,stating the points of rap being a branch off poetry (in origination) but why would I waste my time cause 3/4 of RV wouldnt even take time to read it. But I still strongly stand with my belif,that rap is a form of poetry. |
i don't believe rap and poetry are one in the same, but i believe the type of poetry i write (no real name for the style, bcuz i invented it) is very closely related to Hip-Hop, since iwas a rapper first......... i think poetry and hip-hop with emotion in it come from the same place in the mind, heart, and soul.......... so i guess they are the same and different at the same time.........
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If rap isn't poetry people should stop calling Pac a poet.
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^woot woot
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Few parts where your going wrong I'll just make clear.. The begginning of rap wasnt african poetry, what anxiety was referencing to was a connection they have made that hasnt said african poetry was the first rap, they just say its similar and has slightly influenced the way rap has developed. The origional rap, which is what I been saying and OMB has been saying was back in the 70's in NY with Kool Herc Djing and hosting parties, making sampled loops and spitting small freestyles and shot outs to well known people in the crowd.. Any hip hop historian will back me up on that.. Good for you that you are trying to bring rap back to its roots, I think youll do a good job at that.. But rap is still not a genre of poetry.. 1) A form of popular music developed especially in African-American urban communities and characterized by spoken or chanted rhyming lyrics with a syncopated, repetitive rhythmic accompaniment. 2) A composition or performance of such music. That is rap's definition.. It clearly states it is a form of music.. You did later say Quote:
They are related, but rap is not a form of poetry which is what you first were trying to say which is why I first quoted your post and made my argument.. |
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Pac wrote poetry, and then wrote tracks based on his poetry. He was a poet.. God... Learn about the points you make before you make them..:mad: |
hmm, I grew up allways beleiving that hip hop originated thru african poetry,slaveship boredom and allround during the time of african deportation.
When i search for ra[ps history this is what I find. How "rap" started: In the beginning, the DJ was the most prominent person in the rap music equation, but once the music industry saw dollar signs in the creative efforts of MCs, or masters of ceremonies, such as "Love Bug" Starski and Kurtis Blow, the MCs were termed as "rappers," and the music was labeled "rap." Soon, in the eyes of the public, rapping eclipsed the art of DJing, and rappers became kings and queens. This is from a site called www.hiphiphistory.com So can you please show me were you get your facts from,cause to me these "facts" above dont really run deep into shit and sorta scratch the surface. |
After finding this site, I have come to the conclusion.
Rap is poetry if the rapper wants it be. While another rapper might not want his music to be poetry,and to simply be music. its the choice of the creater himself. very interesting read. http://www.msu.edu/~miazgama/spokenword.htm |
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Which is what I've said from the word go.. But you act like when people make rap as music its some kind of lesser form to poetical rap... Which couldnt be further from the truth in my opinion... My most recent post bar this one explains those origions, as does the brief explenation of raps history you posted... |
How "rap" started: In the beginning, the DJ was the most prominent person in the rap music equation, but once the music industry saw dollar signs in the creative efforts of MCs, or masters of ceremonies, such as "Love Bug" Starski and Kurtis Blow, the MCs were termed as "rappers," and the music was labeled "rap." Soon, in the eyes of the public, rapping eclipsed the art of DJing, and rappers became kings and queens.
^that explanation of raps history is wack, its empty. The link in the post you qouted explains alot to me,and it concludes most of your point ,you were right bro. But Im still a poetical rapper ;) |
Word... I didnt click the link so I wouldnt know...
I've read plenty of history of rap stuff... I've studied rap down to a tee.. From those who are successful, what they stand for and their careers to cunts that are dope but underground... I know my game baby.. |
Yeh, I aint saying you dont,but bro, remember I know what Im doing aswell. I just never stressed it on the net so much.
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Dude... I am who I am no matter where I am...
I am not a different personality on and off the net.. And I always treat people as people.. |
NOS you're silly, he's saying "rap is not just a form of poetry"....saying JUST like poetry is beneath rap...it IS a form of poetry, but at the same time it's a form of music...all lyrics are a form of poetry...whether they have lyrical depth or are just something on the surface it originated from poetry...mainstream rappers mis-use it and that's why rap is so severely under appreciated as an ART these days...now EVERYBODY thinks they can rap...i mean damn, Ying Yang Twins and people like that, that shit's just yelling over beats, that's not even rap to begin with...
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that right there proved our point...rap and poetry are the same thing lmao...rap is a form of poetry, no matter how you look at it...REAL rap is a form of poetry...you say "rap isn't JUST a form of poetry" like it being a form of poetry is be-littling rap, when it's not...if anything, to me, it makes it more creidible to those that say rap is an irrelevant part of culture in general rap is creative eXpression, you can define it however you want to but it IS a form of poetry whether you agree or not, maybe YOUR raps aren't of a more poetic nature but in general and as a whole, rap is a form of poetry...not JUST a form of poetry, but a form of poetry...so stop making it seem like it's a such a BAD thing when it's not... |
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Sorry sweetheart.. But my idiot alerts are going off the rictor scale at the moment.. Rap and poetry are related.. Rap is not solely a form of poetry as you are trying to say it is.. You contradict yourself and dont even realise it. Your saying I'm wrong to say that rap is only related to poetry and not a form of poetry because according to yourself; rap is simply a form of poetry and cannot be anything bar poetry(THATS WHAT A GENRE IS LADY). Yet your also saying "Maybe your raps arnt more of a poetic nature'.. Look, I got nothing against you.. But your not comming off to me as being the brightest light in the house at the moment.. I'll say this one more time so make sure you got your thinking caps on this time honey.. Rap has a close relationship, some would say has even been influenced by poetry in certain ways. But it in no way falls under a catagory of poetry.. Rap IS a genre of music.. And it IS an origional art form.. Now stop making a fool of yourself please.. Yes I am a rude asshole.. Live with it.. |
Yo I just realised where your going wrong too..
Your acting like rap is text... AHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH Wow.... Thats amazing.... Rap is not just about lyrics... Oh my god you are a textee.. I should of known.. ROFL @ this argument now.. |
when one describes something as being "poetic" that generally refers to there being finess and skill involved in the way the words are put together...
not every rapper uses finess to write raps, therefore they are not poetIC...but that does not negate the fact that rap is a form of poetry... let'sl eave it at this, you go on thinking rap isn't poetry and you'll never be a true lyricist because a true lyricist uses finess and techniQue with words, no matter WHAT their topic is (ex. Jay-Z), people that don't are individuals that talk about nothing and will never be recogniZed in the long run as having done "something" (ex. Ying Yang Twins) which you would ratherbe is up to you entirely...we don't HAVE to share the same opinion, and we obviously don't...but I still believe that rap, at the core, is a form of poetry...not only a genre of music...it doesn't have to fall into only ONE category... you're telling me I'm not thinking, I've opened my mind to your eXplination of things, but I don't feel like you'vedone anything but been argumentative, you haven't actually proven anything to me besides that you like to argue, not that you know what you're speaking of...I have concrete eXplinations, you have opinions...which you have a right to have...but I can't agree with them... rap isn't JUST about lyrics, you're right...it's about beats too, but right now, we're talking about lyrics...some poets say their poems to beats when they perform them, that's another way poetry relates to rap, since you wanna go there... I'm a textcee?...I rap for real and am pretty much signed to a label down here where I am kid, hahaa... |
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^do yu honestly believe there was no depth of emotion behind that song?... ...there is always a motive behind an artist's song....an emotion he/she was feeling...yu just dont write to be writing....see, yure stuck in mind frame taht poetry HAS to be deep and shit... "roses are red violets are blue" ^is taht fucking deep and "poetical" to yu?.....it IS a poem though, sweety..... |
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Idiot..... Complete idiot..... With a dash of ignorance..... Let me translate your argument to what it is without all the babbling on.. Quote:
Listen... When you break out of your little text fantasy land and actually make rap songs... You will soon discover, rap is not built up of only lyrics... There are a lot of elements that make rap and they are all employed to generate the music that is played in your sterio... When that earth shattering day comes, then you will understand my point and why rap is simply related and not a catagory of......poetry. I agree... Stop the fucken argument.... You dont know what your talking about.... |
OMG see, I never insulted your intelligence when I came back with my piece did I?...so why must you come in here saying that I'm stupid and IGnorant?...
I used Jay-Z as an eXample of a person that uses finess and techniQue, in the punchlines he uses he incorporates, metaphors and wordplay and many other techniQues that are ALL related to poetry directly...so what you're talking about, I don't know... poetry isn't all about love and things like that, obviously you've never red REAL poets besides the ones you see on boards and shit that cover the SAME topics...Langston Hughes poetry was political, just like some rap is...it's all about how you cover a topic..."FUCK THE POLICE" was political, they just chose to eXpress it in a more angry way than the "average" poet would have, but it's STILL a form of poetry!!... you're getting all fired up and emotional like I don't understand that there's more to rap than just lyrics, I understand that, but my point is that the lyrics in rap music are related to poetry, not the music behind it... you know what, FUCK it, rap IS only about lyrics...if you have a beat, it's just a beat, what makes rap RAP, is the lyrics...and lyrics, no matter what genre of music they're in, are aform of poetry... maybe some other people on here live in this "textcee" world you're talkin' about but I don't...I haven't done text in forever, I just don't post tracks here any more cuz it's pointless... P.S. again, quit trying to be-little other eople's intelligence in your fight to argue your point, it's NOT needed...you only resort to such unintelligent elementary commentary when you feel like you're "losing" the argument...and as I said before, it's not about winning or losing to me...I just want you to open your eyes and see that you're NOT 100% correct all the time, and this is one of those times you're not correct... |
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Listen.. You are wrong.. I dont feel as though I am losing at all because the points your making are simply ignorant and idiotic.. I understand what poetry is just aswell as you do, maybe even a little better.. I have some poetry in my sig for christ sake and you still say "Oh you must of just only read net heads poetry you obviously dont understand what poetry is"... ^IDIOT STATEMENT NUMBER 1.... Secondly I will say again... When you step out of your fantasy land and actually make rap music... You will start to understand the vast amount of production involved in making good rap music... Rap is not ONLY about lyrics, the first rap was fucking samples from a DJ and small freestyle rhymes... Ya rock and ya don't stop and this is the sounds of DJ Kool Herc and the Sound System and you're listening to the sounds of what we call the Herculoids. He was born in an orphanage he fought like a slave fuckin' up faggots all the Herculoids played when it come to push come to shove the Herculoids won't budge The bass is so low you can't get under it the high is so high you can't get over it So in other words be with it.. That my friend is 1970's rap where it all began.. They wernt poetry writers that did all this bullshit that most fuckwhit pseudo interlect hip hop heads try and pin onto that great enigma of "the birth of hip hop"... It wasnt some fucking all out for the lyrics type mumbo jumbo your acting like.. He damn well was into graffiti, his sister asked him to host a party.. he grabbed a bunch of cd's that he liked and hosted a big party on the streets, 25cents admission and made $300 wham bam thankyou mam.. That was the birth of hip hop... FREESTYLE RHYMES HOSTING A PARTY... NOT WRITTEN LYRIC 'POETRY' you fucken clown.. There has since been connections made that rap can be related to poetical lyrics.. Some rappers flourish on this fact... But rap is still a form of music over anything else.. Influenced and related to poetry YES.... A catagory of poetry... Get a fucking brain... Like I have said previously... Go ask a well known poetry publisher if you can drop some rap lyrics in a poetry book because you feel that rap is a catagory of poetry.. He will ask you if youve had any labotomys recently... Fucken downys round here please woman.. |
OMG just because I said rap is a FORM of poetry doesn't mean that EVERY poet can rap, but I believe every rapper has the capacity to become a poet...saying anything otherwise is like saying you can bake a cake with eggs in it and then reverse the process to take out the eggs...the quote in your SIGy is a poem BY A RAPPER!! which proves the point I just made and have been trying to make...
I'm not living in a fantasy land, and rap IS about lyrics...but I wasn't talking about rap as a music, I was speaking specifically about rap lyrics junk monkey, gEEEzus... I'm not denying the fact that rap music is a genre of music, by definition it is and freestyles will always just be freestyles and no, they're usually NOT of a poetic nature, it's usually just random thoughts with rhyming words at the end...but thought out WRITTEN lyrics for the composition of a song IS related to and can be considered a form of poetry... thisis getting nowhere, you'renot comprehending me and giving any leeway to the fact that I just MIGHT be at least a little bit right cuz you're too bust hitting yourself with the "I'm right I'm right I'm right" hammer...I'm gonna let you wallow in your un-bending ways while you keep on keeping on...not everything is black and white, especially not when it comes to creativity...rap isn't just music, it (like any music with written lyrics) is a form of poetry... yet here, I digress...someone else argue with him, I'm through cuz he's not listening... P.S. rap still isn't rap without the lyrics, or it'd just be beats |
Sweetheart..
I have listened and taken in everything youve said. Aside from the vast amount of contradictions and dancing around issues trying to act like you know something I dont.. Your not making correct assumptions. Full stop... Time and time again I have proven you wrong... You tell me freestyles arnt poetry which basically means you are disqualifying it as part of rap itself.. You tell me rap is all about lyrics.... Therefore I can only guess any songs you make arnt going to have beats or any form of production involved in the creation process and it is simply going to be you rapping over silence... Listen... When you grow a brain... You wont argue with me on this issue... The reason it is going round and round is only due to your own complete ignorance and lack of reason... Did you even notice Ysdat taking in my posts and agreeing with me? Do you even notice ANYONE elses posts appart from your own? |
Glanced thru the above posts'.
Nos, poerty doesnt have to be pre written,there are no boundrys for poetry as is there are no boundrys for rap. L. Veracity since making this thread I have done alot of study and come to the conclusion,rap is a form of its own self expression with a relationship to poetry IF and WHEN the writer decides it to be poetical. Not every song is a form of poetry like it should be,50 cent the marketing gimik is no were near poetry. Poetry consists of creativity originality emotion and all round love for what your doing,that is were I will take rap music back to with a present day twist. |
Yssdat hates AIM cause he's a faggot.
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Rap itself consists of creativity; origionality; expression and so on..
Its the music were making, the lyrics are only part of what makes the whole. Anyway.. Fuck defining rap... Just bloody well make it how you enjoy making it.. I feel thats the best way to do it.. |
yeh, To me there is no boundry for rap, its to be made how the fuck you the creater wants to make it. Similier to poetry
But if your wanting to sell your music,then you obviously have to appeal to other people. I make my music for me,fuck everyone else. |
I make my music for other people..
But I do that because thats what I enjoy doing.. I'm not selfish...(atleast sometimes) |
yeh, when it comes to my music and I say I make it for me,thats simply so I keep y essence about it and dont sell out and make that shit that anyone can do. I know what Im making now is being enjoyed cause Ive had people prop me and say they enjoy the track.
The way I see it,if i make music I like, im just like every other REAL rap head out there,so its only normal most will like it aswell. I aint saying everyone will like it,shit,some wont even understand it. but I dont give a fuck if they dont like it,im not making it for them, Im not making it for record sales,Im not making it to be number one int he country. Look at most number ones,they make a musical gimick just to sell it, and I bet the rapper wished he could make the cold hearted shit and be number one. But no,its not politically correct to be numkber one and express your feelings at the same time. I guess what im saying is I shall never seel out with my music, if it aint being liked so be it. Also I know I gotta be able to generate sales for any label to look at me, that why Im staying independant, the cats im with now and just like me. They asre a independant crew with enough knowledge to take them were ever the fuck they want music to taker them. Fuck seeling out just to impress little girls who will purchase the album,the real are going to feel what i have to say.The fake will go run and hide and fall off the edge of this planet. |
Me and you have very different opinions and takes on the rap industry.
Lets leave it at that.. |
yeh, i knew that ever since I first started talking to you a while back. But thats what so good abotu rap,there isnt opne path you can take,and there isnt one spot at the top.
But best beleive nos, I am taking AOTEAROA to a plac eit is yet to see. |
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