All I know is that I mostly feel sad then happy.

OK, if you really think your memories are who you are... Does that mean that when you were young, those days you can't remember of being a baby, a toddler, 5 years old... You werent you?

Definatly..............

So there was a period of time, in which you, despite being you, werent you?

Obviously..

You wernt you during those periods either..

You didnt know your name, you couldnt communicate for shit you had no memories stored, no ideas about life, no common sense, no defining aspects of your personality.....

Your a blank canvus...

Your real self shines much later in life when you are full grown.

Thats what growing up is all about, finding and developing yourself...

That would mean you arent you right now, either. With your logic, the only time you are really you is the split second before you die.

Well ofcourse people usually stay in constant development throughout their lives.

But there is a point where you begin refining yourself more so than finding yourself.

What if you get amnesia?

So you're saying that your Self is basically a bunch of dynamic memories that keep changing until you die?

If thats the real you, then who is it that's contemplating that self from an external standpoint?

Are you saying life is not dynamic and in constant change?

No, the "self" is in constant change, but not the true self.

But I did say a lot of questions that you conveniently ignored.

Ok then wiseguy..

What is your 'true' self?

I'll answer your questions when you answer mine, especially the last one.

Its not comming from an external standpoint...

My memories tell me I've thought about this before and this was my conclusion.


Now answer my question.

I'm getting to that.

Well then when you did think about it, who was thinking about it? And dont say it was the self you've been talking about.

And as you think about who was thinking about it, who's doing that?

And now that i've said that, who is that fourth you thinking about all the others?

I think there are higher elements to the human being than the self...

Thats whats 'thinking about it' and storing information into the memory banks that create my wordly self.

So there's two you's?

Why do you only concern yourself with the self that is the product of the other you? Isnt that other you "higher"?

No theres not two of me...

And a lot of thoughts in our thinking process we go through are majorly influenced by information, common sense and prejudices that exist in our memory.

But ofcourse I think its very plausable that theres more to it than that.


Now............what...........the fuck do you consider your 'self'?

Im not asking how you think, im asking who you are.

As it stands, you've said that there is your dynamic memory self (which is BS if you ask me), and there is something higher.

What is it thats higher?

I'm carbon-based lifeform.
Made up of the building blocks of matter.
Created for a purpose in this so called life on Earth.
He who expresses true emotions and senses.
My conclusional perceptions are based on ones faith.
My faith resides with Catholicism.
I consider myself merely an abstract of life created to live and die.
My life is based on the perception of my thoughtwaves to the perception on my mind.

It must be very confusing being you!

I'm not answering any more questions untill youve answered mine.

Dont be shortsighted. Just answer, I am answering your question.

How about you tell me why it is you believe I'm wrong instead...

Ive never said you were wrong, I just asked you what's that thing that's higher than the self you've been talking about (which I consider to be a BS self, but thats only my opinion, you are entitled to yours as well).

I would call it a soul.

Now.. What is the human 'self' to you..

But you are your "soul". Why create some lame other self? Maybe it wasnt your fault you created it, but if you see it's redundant, why not get rid of it?

I dont know my soul..

You asked me at the beginning of this what my worldly self is..

I wouldnt classify a soul as a wordly self...

But that wasnt the original question of the thread. The original question was who are you REALLY? And you replied by saying you are your worldly self.

"Don't know" your soul? You were just talking about it. Its who you are. You just said you don't know who you are.

Is it possible to define something that continually changes? If I define myself now, in a millisecond from now, I would be something/someone different for whatever reason, maybe adding to who I am someone who answered a question. I don't have to keep a continual tab on what makes me, me, I just need to keep a tab on what will make me a better person.

Well, in my opinion.

Slow down for a second man.. I think your getting ahead of yourself..

Lets re-cap..




Call it what you want, a worldly identity/self.......

Its the same thing.

As for my soul... Who fucken knows?
How would you define a soul?

How would you know your soul...?

Well.. If the soul is the one that created your worldly self, and the soul is the one that thinks about the worldly self... Then if you get rid of the worldly self and the ego, it is safe to say you are your true self.

Cause I dont think the soul created your wordly self...

I think your enviroment, life, experience, learning and everything else we take in on a day to day basis especially when were growing up is what creates the worldy self..

Yeah, but what is it thats inside you that processes all of those things?

A brain....................

Nos, just admit that you can't fully define yourself and since you can't there is no reason to live. That's where this is going.

So in essence, who you think you are is a bunch of pre-conceptions, misconceptions, prejudices and biases, formed by previous experiences that control the way you think in the present moment.

Pretty cool existence man. Pretty cool.

That would be my worldly identity yeah...

The one which you hold so dearly.

I've just come across a story that illustrates the true self quite well. It is a Taoist story, so if you are not aware of their beliefs just replace The Tao with Universe (for non-theists) or The Tao with God (for theists).

---

"Master," the disciple asked, "what exactly is the true self?"

The sage replied, "Ultimately, your true self is the Tao and the Tao is you."

"I find that hard to believe, Master. The Tao is great; I am insignificant. The Tao is powerful; I have but a little strength. The Tao is unlimited; I labor under many limitations. The Tao is everywhere; I can only be in one place at a time. As far as I can tell, the Tao and I are completely different. How can you say that I am ultimately the Tao and the Tao is me?"

Rather than to respond directly, the sage handed the disciple a bowl: "Go to the nearby river with this and use it to bring back some water, then we'll continue the discussion."

The disciple carried out the order, but when he came back, the sage looked at the bowl and frowned. "Didn't I tell you to fetch the water from the river? This can't be it."

"But it is, Master," the disciple was confused by the disapproval. "I collected the water by dipping the bowl into the river. I assure you that this water absolutely is from the river."

"I know the river quite well," the sage said. "All kinds of fish swim in it, but I don't see any fish in this water. Numerous animals come to the river to drink from it, and yet I see no animals in this bowl. Many children from the village frolic in the shallows of the river. Well, I see no children here either. Therefore, this cannot be the water from the river."

"Master, it is only a small amount of water, of course it cannot contain all those things!"

"Oh, I see," said the sage. "Well, in that case, I want you to go pour the water back into the river."

The disciple did so with a puzzled expression on his face. He couldn't help but wonder what had possessed the sage to act so strangely. He completed his task and returned.

"Is the water back in the river?" the sage asked. The disciple nodded.

"Good," said the sage. "That small amount of water you brought back is now the same water that touches the fish, the animals and the children. In fact, everything that the river is now applies to the water we were both looking at just a while ago.

"Think of the river as the Tao and the water in the bowl as your true self. From a limited point of view, that water seems very different from the river. It is understandable how one can be led to believe that the two are not the same and can never be the same. The river is far greater than the bowl of water, just as the Tao is far greater than an individual human being.

"Having carried water from the river, you can now see it from an expanded perspective. The river is the source of the water, just as the Tao is the source of our true inner selves. You saw this for yourself as you dipped the bowl into the river, so you insisted that the water was the same even when I tried to convince you it wasn't.

"When you poured the water back, you saw that the separation of the water from the river was only temporary. It's just like that for the true self. Our physical existence is only a temporary condition. The eternal truth is that our innermost nature comes from, and ultimately returns to, the Tao. When all is said and done, we and the Tao are one."

---

Well.. For starters.......He asked the guy to bring back some water FROM the river.....Not the whole river......

But other than that..

Its only really an ultimate philosophy if you look at life only from the physical plane we exist on and neglect anything beyond this reality that surrounds us.

Which is comming to conclusions based on limited knowledge.

Which is why me and you often have dissagreements...

Becuase these taoist dudes are conditioning you to think a certain way...