So thats your point? That he asked him to bring back water from the river?

Im glad you can read and all that, but honestly what does that have to do with anything? It is a very simple story, with a clear meaning, and it relates perfectly to things we have talked about before. It would be better for you to make an argument against the meaning of the story, that relates to what we are talking about in this thread.

What conclusions am I coming to based on lmited knowledge?

How am I being conditioned by something in which one of the main teachings is to get rid of your conditioned mind and ponder issues with a clear mind?

Ignor the small flaw I pointed out.. I was just making an observation..

And I just told you the point I was making..

This philosophy only works for things contained in this physical plane (the universe we see).. And they come to the conclusion that because we are part of a physical plane we are part of god.

But they dont know if this physical plane is even reletive to what god is, why should he be limited to this reality?

Our connection with god does not nessecarily mean we are part of him.

Whether you replace 'the tao' with god or the universe.....This will never be an ultimate theory because none of us can truely know what is beyond what we see.

And sure they tell you to drop all mental conditioning.. But their folly is in them then in-directly attempting to make you think on the same wavelength as they do.

Which, as I have just demonstrated... Is not nessecarily correct...

If it were only related to the physical plane, it wouldnt be a spiritual belief. I really think that before you attempt to talk about something, at least know a bit about what you're discussing.

Obviously the connotations assosciated with the word God are very great, The Tao is more suitable. But to use that you need to know what The Tao is. I simply said replace it with God so it would be easier to grasp hold of the concept, and how it can relate to christianity.

They never tell you what to think. If you practice what they say to practice you will find yourself acting and thinking on the same wavelength anyway. This is why in "religions" such as Zen Buddhism, little meaning is placed on scriptures. All you need is right there. In Zen temples, they do not study scriptures, they live their lives. Only once a year are scriptures ever used, and in these ceremonies really all they do is play around. Since the scriptures are kept on zig-zag folded paper between two pieces of wood, they are a lot like slinkies. So for one day of the year they bring out the scriptures and play around with them, then put them away.

Your conditioning is the only reason you or anyone else would ever consider "god" being some sort of being external from the universe, or a sentient, concious being such as a "man in the sky" or an alien or some lifeform on a different plane of existence. Not to be offensive to you, or christians, or anyone else who may have that thought, but its just downright absurd. But the way we talk about spiritual matters in our society you are conditioned to think that.

"God, help me!"
"Pray to God"
"God will save us"
"God the father in heaven"

We are told that god is everywhere, god is all things, god is all around us and inside all of us. Yet we still somehow create these images of god... Not false idols in the sense of statues we worship, but even worse. False idols that are images in our own minds, the hardest misconceptions to get rid of. Even if you are not a christian you are affected by these notions.

So please, before attacking something such as taoism which encourages free thought, open-mindedness, and tried and true pathways to content life (that are indeed subject to change based on any new discoveries that are made... Which, by the way, has happened a lot over the years and is still happening now. Cases in which old sages writings are re-interpreted or added onto so that they relate to life in the modern day, due to things like scientific advancement are not uncommon.. But also writings so full of truth that they are still relevant today are abundant). You should consider your own situation deeply, and how your conceptions and mind have been formed by your life up until now.

Thats just the thing man...

You say so confidently that god is the universe and everything around us.

Your conditioned and you dont even realise it...

Shits kind of sad really...

Im not talking about God.

What im saying is "the universe and everything around us." It may not seem like it makes sense, but thats the only thing im saying. You can slap the label of God onto it, if you see fit, and everything said in the bible co-incides with it. You could consider it a God if you want. Thats not saying I do, or I dont, its saying I could, or if I wanted to I could not.

I know im conditioned. It may take me a while, but im shedding my self and my ego at a steady rate. I try to look at things from every possible perspective, and understand where people are coming from, so that in the end I can see the correctness and fault in every viewpoint, including my own.

You can call me sad, if you want.

Only reason I replaced the tao with god is because I was told to...

And if its not god your speaking of...

Then I guess their not really wrong...

Our physical selves are that of the universe as we are seemingly made of the same material when we see the universe from our perspective.

Although its highly probable that there is a lot more to a human being than simply what is in/what is relevant to the universe. Therefore I hope the tao covers the unknown aswell..

Which would mean the guys basically saying................I got no fucking idea what my true self is so I'll label it something and try to sound wise anyway...

My advice would be do some research, live your everyday life in the mindstate that a taoist sage or zen monk would, thinking the way they do... If you dont feel at all different, or you dont like the change, continue as you would have had you not gave it a go.

Or you could just not give it a try, and continue living how you are now. Thats perfectly fine as well.

I play the game of life...

Living as a monk isnt my calling.. I'm always interested in hearing other peoples ideas.. But I wont conform to their mindstate just to 'experience what its like to be them'...

Zen is all about playing the game of everyday life. The only reason a Zen monk would exist, is because he has lost the plot and needs guidance. He will leave the monastery in his own time, once the master there thinks he is ready. This could take a short visit of 3 days, or it could take living there for 30 years. The most common time is 10 years.

You can have the mindstate without becoming a monk, and even without having a teacher.

I see..

So a Zen monistary........In the way youve described it...

Is kind of like a mental institution...

On the contrary. The one who seeks a zen monastery is one who has realized he has lost the plot. Everyday society is the mental institution in which there is very little means of finding out your are insane. A zen monastery would be the exit out of the mental institution. Thats not to say it is the only exit, but it is an exit.

I mean think about it. Whats crazier than playing a game and not realizing that it is a game?

Its not crazy to play a game and not realise its a game...

Thats just people who havnt cottoned on to whats real yet....

Dude... Its insane how many people play the game till they die, completely oblivious.

Good for them........

You're one of them.

I am Jet. Hear me Roar.

We're all of them

Not at all.........

I don't think I understand the questions. And I aint about to read through this thread. So forget looking dumb.


Its dipset! Eh!!!

You've said to me countless times that you, as an individual, have various life goals and wants. Those, however, are the goals and aspirations of an illusory self.

Your mind is so one tracked...

See you understand that life is a game.. And you decide that since youve realised that, you should drop all goals and shit away your life cause in your mind its all pointless anyway..

Where as I've realised its a game......And decided to fucking get up off my ass and play it..........use it for all its worth.........Realise that since I'm in this existance, I might aswell get involved...

Oh you've decided to play it have you? And im not playing it?

lol