May I ask why?

And I forgot the figures that disprove the "Bush's tax cuts for the rich" theory in my locker again, but I'll make sure to post them up tomorrow.

Meh. This is my direct reason that I tell anybody who asks why I'm not voting for McCain.

"Both presidential candidates suck, McCain says one thing and goes for the other, best example is trying to insult Obama over experience, then giving vice president position to Palin, using her capability to have a fucked up family and look decent as an excuse, he doesn't release his medical information and when that's what people expect of a person his age, he's hiding shit, & he wants to keep us in a war that has ruined our country far worse than anything in history."

it doesn't come down to what he's offering.

It comes down to truth, morals, and secrecy.

Do I want a man who lies, uses cheap tactics, twists his story around and keeps things secret from the public, in office? I can understand if he wants to hide his dick size 'cuz that's irrelevant, but otherwise, I should give a fuck if some know-nothing broad is going to be 44th president of the United States when McCain dies from the same medical problems he chose to hide from me for obvious reasons. It's not like he'll get abducted so people can torture his cancerous tumor. "OMG CAN WE TRUST A PRESIDENT WHO CAN'T PISS IN A TOILET CORRECTLY?" .............. who the fucks gonna do that? He's just being secretive.

I find these to be very correct reasons to not vote for a human being. My favorite absolute choice... Decency.

As promised, here is the data that shows how Bush's tax cuts (supposedly for the rich) actually affected rich people. I'm going to break the data down into two sections.

Richest 1% of the population:

In 1990, the top 1% made 14% of the country's income. They paid 25% of the country's taxes.
In 2000, at the end of Bill Clinton's term, the top 1% made 21% of the country's income. They paid 37% of the country's taxes.
In 2007, after Bush's "tax cuts for the rich" were implemented, the top 1% made 21% of the country's income. They paid 39% of the country's taxes.

So, the tax cuts obviously haven't helped the richest 1% of the population. They're making the same amount of income as they were making when Bill Clinton was president, but now they're paying a little more taxes.

Richest 5% of the population:

In 1990, the top 5% made 27% of the country's income. They paid 44% of the country's taxes.
In 2000, the top 5% made 35% of the country's income. They paid 56% of the country's taxes.
In 2007, the top 5% made 36% of the country's income. They paid 60% of the country's taxes.

And so the trend continues. With the "help" of President Bush, the richest 5% make 1% more of the income, but pay 4% more of the taxes. The data actually seems to suggest that Bush's "tax cuts for the rich" aren't helping the rich all that much.

If you doubt the figures I just posted, all of the data is available at the Bureau of Economic Analysis (www.bea.gov), so feel free to have a look yourself.

Hey Blay, next time you want to start saying I'm the one buying into all of this political bullshit, you might want to make sure you know what the fuck you're talking about first. Thanks buddy!

Regardless of who wins, I'm just going to miss Bush.

thank god for tax havens huh? lol

The idiocy on this site baffles me.

Mims'....your quoting goverment sites. Like they're any more reliable than Fox News

so you're saying the fact that if you're rich you get taxed ridiculously doesn't mean that using tax haven countries allows you to retain more of you money than you would have had you simply remained 100% based in the states

and don't ever imply that i'm stupid you jumped up lil sonofabitch

I'm pretty sure that they are.

lol, your telling me Fox news is a good source for fair and accurate points of view?

read what you said...and then ask that question

What the fuck are you talkin about Vision?


I was stating that Mim's quoted some goverment regulated website, now im not a conspriacy type of a guy, but our goverment is ran by some shady mother fuckers, n it aint hard to switch a few numbers around to paint a prettier picture.


Fox News, is obviously a biased ass channel, not that MSNBC isn't ....or CBS for that matter, pretty much all media sources have bias's in them.

But the way mim's came with his arguement was that, 'no its goverment website, its gotta be right'

n i was just laughin @ that

yay Obama!

i

i'm talking about you thinking that i said or implied that fox news were credible sources....when in fact....what i said was...and if you would have re-read it..you would have gotten this...is that government sites are in fact, more accurate then television stations...even if those television stations are funded by the government.


Reading comprehension, man.

heres an example in case you didn't get it.

No...I'm not telling you that. I don't think that, i never said it, or implied it.
I said government sites are better for accurate information then news sites.

You basically say "Yeah right, like government sites are more reliable for accurate info then fox news etc...etc..."

i say "actually, government sites ARE more reliable"

get it now?


the only what i said could have implied or meant what you thought....is if you said..."yeah right, like fox news is a reliable source of information"

then when i said..."actually, they are."

what you thought i said would have made sense.....but that wasn't your original statement...so clearly...that's not what i meant.

Nobody 08'
....

Hahahahahaha, wow. And to think that as this thread developed I was actually starting to think you may actually know a little bit about what you're talking about. The Bureau of Economic Analysis is the only place to get reliable information about the economy. Where else do you recommend people go for information? Barack Obama? The BEA is unbiased as hell. Go to the website and show me where the economic data (that is, GDP, taxes paid, etc. etc.) is unreliable or biased to prove or support some political agenda.

Nice try.

Man, saying the BEA is biased is like saying the IRS (www.irs.gov) is a biased and unreliable place to get information about taxes. Jesus, it's not that hard to understand. I'm not saying, "Trust the BEA because it's a government website!," I'm saying, "Trust the BEA because they provide the best economic data available!"

It's really not that hard. Comparing the BEA to Fox News in reliability is like comparing Tupac to CALI in song making ability. They're at different ends of the spectrum.

you are a whore mime.

why are you never on aim? I've got a benjamin franklin with your name on it.

Shit, might as well post again.

Pinky, I'll ask you the same question I asked Blay. What makes you think you know what you're talking about? If you've gone to college, what's your major? What's your GPA? What knowledge or learning do you have that makes you believe the way you do?

Here, I'll go first. I go to Arizona State and I'm majoring in Business Finance. My GPA is 3.94. I've taken quite a few classes, but I only find 2 of them to be relevant in this discussion. I was taught macroeconomics and microeconomics by a guy who has been praised by 5 Nobel Prize winners in economics. I did very well in both of those classes.

How about you?

Hahahahaha, I changed my AIM, so on the rare occasion when I get on, you can hit me up at myboyrhaw. Thanks man. I think I may have a George Washington or two laying around that I can slap your name on too.

i'm getting real tired of you ducking me man.

If you don't get on aim sometime in this next week...i'm going to your school right before oregon plays asu and holding rudy carpenter hostage.

can you and your friends handle being ranked in the top 20 two years in a row and losing to us both times?

oh...there you go...just in the nick of time..

Obviously a goverment site, is the most accurate place for information. Becuase all new's station's base there skewed and fucked up points, off those sites.


I'm just saying, that anyone who belivies everything on those sites, is gulible.

hmm....what you just said you were saying...and what you actually said...are very, very different....it's cool though.

I'm voting for myself. Lowering gas prices to 2$ a gallon for 87 and fixing this economy. Stopping this war cuz i bet you 5 bucks Osama Bin Laden is a ficticous government created character and 9/11 was caused by the government to raise gas prices in turn making prices rise on everything. This country is shit. Put me in charge I could fix it.

I think its just that my first comment, may have been stated wrong. Which lead to this whole thing.

but, yeeeeaaaa goverment!

*waits for 2v to jump in with a conspriacy theory*

you're not eligible to run. and no you couldnt

First off, if you belivie that by attending college...that your on another level of intellientence. Your wrong. Thats just a common judement most people interpurt.

'Im going to college, i'll be successful, becuase someone gave me a piece of paper!'

Now, i can't hate on anyone who is attending college. Its tough, n it takes alot of work. So....congrats on your 3.94.

I'm sure if i had actually gaven a shit, i could have attained something better than the 3.2 i had.

I was majoring in Philosophy/History...

As far as the comment, that i had posted about the goverement agency. How trustworthy is our goverment. We all know, and can easily look back and see the lies that the goverment has fed us before to keep our spirts, either A. Postive or B. Negative. All goverment really is, is a pyschology enforcement of human will. The simply use pyschological tactics to trick people into believin in the goverment.

Don't belviie me? That our goverment is hypocritcal? N just a huge ball of bullshit?

All Men Should Be Created Equal? No? Yes?

yes, of course. Thats why our four fathers defended that statement.

So why the fuck woudl they still have slaves? George Washington, had huge amounts of slaves.

Our goverment is simply a group of people, who we 'freely' elect, and look out for their interest's first. Than the interest's of the people that elected them. Its common human nature to look out for oneself before someone else.

I'm not complaining about our govermerment, because i couldnt' have accomplsihed the things i have. Or have the things i have with out. So to sit and bash it, would be hypocritcal.

I'm just not foolish enough to belivie that the goverment is looking out for the best interest of its people @ all times.

But, hey ....what the fuck do i know.

Maybe i could check out www.IRS.com n figure a few things out. :evilgrin:

Fuck McCain. Dude will prolly die before 2v. And that's saying a lot b. OBAMA!!

^^^ rofl


2 big thumbs up for that

*refresh *

I believe that college has allowed me to get to a level of understanding and knowledge of the economy (among other things, but they aren't near as relavent to this thread as the economy is), and so yes, I believe that by me going and listening and studying and learning, that it makes me more knowledgeable about the economy then most people. I'm not talking about intelligence, as I'm not sure of a way that intelligence can be measured or compared. I'm talking about knowledge and learning. Your cop out of, "Oh I could have done better if I wanted to" is jack shit to me. Earlier in this thread you stated, "Who HASN'T cheated in college?," which implies that YOU have. Regardless of whether you cheated your way through or not, even though I'm pretty sure you did, ANYBODY can say they could have done better at ANYTHING. I could be saying, "Yeah, if I had given a shit in high school I could have won a bunch of scholarships and gone to Harvard and then I'd be really set!," but I'm not saying that because nobody ever gives a shit what you think you could have done.

I'm not going to be successful because I went to college. I'm going to be successful because I learned things and attained knowledge that I wouldn't have if I had opted to not go to college.

Man, you're either naive or stupid if you think the information provided by the BEA or the IRS is wrong. I seriously can't believe you dudes who are like, "Oh, anybody can just go in there and change something and nobody would notice, despite the holes in the data that would create!" I have NEVER seen somebody say information provided by the Bureau of Economic Analysis is inaccurate or biased. Only on rapverse, which doesn't say much.

And what's your point about slaves? I know some of the older presidents had slaves. I think Andrew Jackson was one of the, if not the worst, president in the history of the United States. He owned slaves, supported slavery and pushed Native Americans from east of the Mississippi River to Oklahoma. You telling me presidents are people and have fucked up before is not news to me.

I know you're bullshitting, but I'll sledgehammer your post anyway. Gases are priced the way they are due to simple supply and demand. The government isn't controlling the price, and neither is Exxon or any of these other big, bad corporations. The supply has gone down, so the price has gone up. It's macroeconomics. If you became president of a country that functions under a capitalistic economy, you couldn't change the price of gas.

If you really think 9/11 was caused by the government you're a retard. I've been saying this forever. If you think the government's "motive" to bring the towers was to raise gas prices, then refer to paragraph 1 where I already killed the prospect of the government controlling the price of anything, including gas.

This country is fine. You'd be the worst president that ever happened.

Not voting for McCain because he may die is the worst reason that ever happened to vote for Obama. Obama could just as easily get assassinated early as hell in his term, so. . ?

I don't mind when people say they're voting for Obama because they care about or value different things then I do. If you think ending the war, or securing woman's rights, or picking who you believe will be the better foreign diplomat is more important than capitalism, then that's fine to me. I'm not going to debate somebody's values. It's just really annoying if you say you're going to vote for Obama because McCain will use taxes to help the rich, or because McCain may die. In my opinion, those aren't valid reasons to not vote for somebody. I've already showed that Bush's tax cuts have not helped the rich, and not voting for somebody because they may die just seems like a cop out to me.

^obviously i was using some excuse to freepost without freeposting you bitch nig :shoot:

No, I knew you were joking, but you and I both know there's people on this site who are trying to use the, "McCain may die" argument as a legitimate reason to vote for Obama. I was addressing them, not you.

I got you b.

word b, I officially transfored to Arizona State as of sunday b

why dont u post what they had to pay in 2003, 04, 05, 06, and the expected '08.... because i feel like there is a high probability that it was raised and raised during his presidency, and balooned to say 42%/62% and he cut them from there.... i dont feel as if that makes him a bad man, but i feel like there is some missing information here..... i also would be hesitant to accept alot of these stats just from personal experience... my family fit into the group that was supposed to either get a tax cut or get a check from the government from Bush... and neither happened... they honestly just as easily could Say they did something and Not do it... they are the government after all...

btw 3.99 gpa with only one A-.... cool dude, we're both smart

See, the difference between you and mim's, is that i respect other peoples opinions and try to understand what the difference is between you and me.

I feel as if you on the other hand, have a resement type of mind set to people who differ from you.

I enjoy reading different things, and drawing conclusions based on differing opinions. I think its the best, and most logical way to draw a fair and unbiased opinion.

And as far as you drawing some conclusion, that i've cheated through college? Yeah, thats wrong. In all of my college class's, there was alot of kids who did cheat. I wasn't one of them. Weather or not you belivie that, is up to you. I just thought it was funny, becuase 90% of the college athletes, mostly football players, who were in my class's...some how magically would get A's ...n never show up to class.

N for your lil ramble about Jackson...yes your right, Andrew Jackson was a huge douche bag. And a complete racist, good job by our goverment by printing him all of the 20 dollar bill, huh?

I never said that the IRS, or the other website's information was ALWAYS false, but you can't sit there and say that the goverment is always 100% forthcoming with information.

If they were, why is it that the deparment of defense, doens't have to be liable to post up what they purchase?

If you really want to go into some debate about how our goverment has major loop holes to hide tax money, and were its going. I'm all for it.

I hope you respect my views, just as i do yours. N if you dont, thats fine.

I didn't post that data because I didn't gather that data when I did the research last year. I know I could get it for you, but I'm not seeing the point. If taxes ballooned, then wouldn't that also support my theory that Bush is not helping the rich? Even if he provided the tax cuts after taxes ballooned (which I highly doubt happened because taxes don't increase that fast), the end result was that rich people were still paying more taxes then they were during Bill Clinton's presidency. That hypothetical situation still doesn't justify saying, "Bush is only helping rich people!"

What was/is your major and what school did you/are you going to?