P.S. OMB...on that note, lemme give you this analogy.

I live in Washington, D.C., the nation's capital.

I drive by the white house, monument, capitol building, WW2 memorial, Vietnam memorial, Arlington National cemetery, Jefferson Memorial, Lincoln memorial, and the soon to be MLK Jr. Memorial site ALL THE TIME. These are world-wide recognized landmarks that many people take vacations to go see. When someone visits the United States and stands by the white house for the first time, I'm sure there's this level of "excitement" they can't deny. But, since I'm here and have been around it all my life, that excitement is someone replaced with familiarity. When I hear people talk about how "deep" a person is, I get the same feeling. I listen to some things thinking, "Exactly what's deep about it?" Sometimes, I listen again, figuring I may have missed the "deep" parts. But, to my dismay, I leave with the same impression, that the listener is effected by the music. That's the whole point of music, to affect its listeners.

With that said, it's hard to gauge who is "deeper" than somebody else. Other things, like flow (staying on beat), singing IN TUNE, and being accurate with references are more objective.



1

You can't have your cake and eat it too Nos. Your mindset appears to be somewhat narrow. Who all are these "authorized critics" you're talking about? There's ALWAYS, ALWAYS someone to counter points. What gives someone credentials to be the "final word" on something that's purely subjective in the first place? We're not talking medicine or brain surgery here. We're talking about which rappers are the "best" in the game. And, from what I've heard and seen over the years, most rappers don't sit around and mull over that nonsense. They think it's immature and a waste of time. Only critics sit around and discuss things like that. I'm sure a rapper gauges himself against other rappers, but that doesn't qualify him as an "authority" on hip hop.

will: here... i have to do this quickly, so it is hardly in-depth, but you know.

[Canibus]
Yo, why is the ripper so ill?
That would be a unpardonable breach of confidence for me to reveal!
He said one day all eyes would be on me
when they look up in the sky and see the neon 'C'
Rhymes inscribed on a nickel disk encased
in glass with an ion beam for longevity
For more then 10 centuries, impressions and memories
the first time-machine inventor will mention me
Canibus was a visionary indeed
he believed light could travel in multiples of c
The organic supercomputer that solved the mysteries
of Klein-Kaluza with 2 blue metric rulers
----that shit is ill, if you know what it actually means.
Liked Cool J, but thought Stephen Jay Gould was cooler
and he never liked to propagate rumors
Smoked Canary Island cigars
liked America, luxury cars and beautiful Asian broads
He had a strong mind, he used to philosophize
about rhymes while he was pruning his Bonsai
He claimed that he had written the greatest rhyme of all time
but he would never take it out his archives
He wrote 2 songs per day
and was constantly was experimenting with his wordplay
In his youth he did a report on the Sloan Digital Sky survey
he got an F but he deserved an A
---again, dope, if you know the reference.
I followed his career from the first day
it seemed the lack of support contributed to his inert ways
I seen him pull in 24 hour workdays
with deferred pay, undeterred by the word "shame"
Public humiliation was the worst pain
he was spinnin out of control like a class 5 hurricane
He said he wouldnt want another emcee to suffer the same
especially when there's nothing to gain
He was the illest alive but nobody would face it
he spit till his toungue was too torched to taste, it
properly funded corporations carbon-dated his latest creations
to extract the information
They found it utterly amazing
they claimed the body of his work was the same thing as a priceless painting
Never mattered to him, the art galleries hated him
cause Thomas Kinkade called, said he would take 10
---Right here, in just this small section, it starts talking about his experiences with the music industry. By the way, that Thomas Cincaid line is ill.
Complete enigmas wrapped in puzzles encrypted in language
with sound but without shape or signature
Kept files in his garage, on MS-DOS
in a fire-proof pod, he thought it was odd
Outside there was a shed with an Oppenheimer lock
he apparently kept more wax then Madame Tussaud's
We were in total awe, cause it blew our minds
so many rhymes that were intricately designed
He WAS Poet Laureate of his time
and if you dont mind, I'd like to share some of his rhymes

[*beat switches*]

Alone in my room, looking thru the 32X telescope zoom
adjusting the focus of the moon
One should not assume the philosophy of David Hume
is nothing more then a subjective conclusion
What is the maximum field rate application?
the run away glaciation surrounding the ocean basin
affects the population fluctuation
on a continuous basis but that's just the basics
The juxtaposition of Canibus' position
the precision something no other has written
Way above and beyond what was intended
the unparalleled malleable enunciation of a sentence
You didnt go to college obviously
I can tell by your ungodly unintelligible terminology
A remarkable odyssey, the rhymes of modern speeds
when the brain orders the body not to breathe
Your competency is not up to speed, you not in my league
you couldnt possibly be hotter than me
Or oppositely you're minus 25 degrees, you'd squeeze
but the condensation makes rifle barrels freeze
Allow me to speak figuratively, nigga please
my intellectual properties are about the size of Greece
Your counselor advised you not to speak
my counselor advised me to keep rhymin until they stopped the beat
In the words of Joseph Heller, "I learned how to write better"
even though it sort of irked me
He said he didnt understand the process of the imagination
but he felt he was at its mercy
Which exploits my point perfectly and certainly reinforces
the reason why nobody's probably ever heard of me
Couldnt understand what I mean by ill
unless you try to translate what I print to film
This is the line of will, the circle of time
the cycle of eternity, the emergence of 1 line
Academic phonetics render critics tounge-tied
Ive personified dry humor of cum-laude alumni
A wise man sees failure as progress
a fool divorces his knowledge and misses the logic
And loses his soul in the process
obsessed with nonsense with a caricature that has no content
My style is masterful, multi-lateral
I could battle a fool and be naturally cruel
Words of scourn are a disasterous tool
from an existentialist view, I'm a better rapper then you
Grab the mic and rip your physical fabric in 2
my attitude is fucked up but admirable
Different methods interpreted into different forms
from entirely different perceptions and seen from different norms
Not just spittin a poem there's much more involved
there's much more pieces of the puzzle for you to solve
48 orders of mechanical laws
and rays of creational cause, enhance the cadence of my bars
Maybe I am self-absorbed
but thats the effect, to find the cause you should ask my A&R
Today is what it is, but only because yesterday was what it was
permitting you heard of Beelzebub
A tale of demons and drugs, pissy drunk in the club
with the DJ doing the needle rub
Chances are you'll never see me son
yeah I know my names Canibus but I cant help you if you need a dub
---that whole verse was dope, if you understand him.

[*beat switches*]

I came to holla at some big booty bitches
and listen to the speakers thump, where you get conceited from?
Im so nice on the mic, they wanna beat me up
its deep as fuck, I aint seen it all but I've seen enough
Really unbelievable stuff
theres a lot of times where I wanna speak but I'm stuck
---He is speaking on the release of his album... he went to a party and got attacked by some other rappers. In the second part he's talking about censorship.
I should leave this rap shit alone
and kick my incredible in rhymes in the privacy of my own home
My imagination is my own
the liberty to speak to freely, lividly on the microphone
Wit a pen in my hand, I bring motion to the enneagram
and become "Cani-millenium man"
Engrave my back with the emperor's stamp
been spittin scientific rap since the 17th century began
Tryna' escape the wicked empire of Def Jam
and the land where lyrics are bland and heretics hang
Every warrior has an axe to bury
but he has to learn to discern between enemy and adversary
---What was that about him never mentioning Def Jam? Its not even a metaphor here, he straight up calls them a wicked empire. The second part is about his "beef" with eminem.
I said to myself, "Germaine this is insane
its suicide its controlled flight into terrain"
I fought to regain, control of the plain, but went up in a ball of flames
and got banned from the hip hop hall of fame
For 2 bars I kept hearin in my head
over and over again, it cost me everything

[*beat changes back to the original beat*]

Im convinced now that more then truth is at stake
Where people create language that pretends to communicate
Euphemisms are misundertood as mistakes
but its a bi-product of the ghetto music we make
From an extroverted point of view I think its too late
Hip Hop has never been the same since '88
Since it became a lucrative profession there's a misconception
that a movement in any direction is progression
Even though of the potency of it lessens
big money industries writing checks to suppress the question
And nobody gives a fuck no more, no one goes to the book store
ever since the confluence of Moore's Law
But I stay in the lab, like Niels Bohr
and his son Aage, Edward Lorenz and Leo Szilard
Lyrically I took rap music and turned the knob
to the right full throttle and added panache
Why would I argue with my own conscience over the truth?
thats like me telling myself dont tell me what to do
Dialyses and analyses of battle emcees
sometimes I say things I myself can't believe
My lyrical is so skillfully elliptical
I can understand how it makes you miserable
You wonder why I never let you play your beats for me
or why I keep my studio enshrouded in secrecy
You wonder what's my infatuation with Alicia Keys
"Canibus why dont you speak to me?"
Yo, I meant it when I said no one can shine on a song that features me
thats why I said it so vehemently
You need to place the hate with respect
I'm probably the best yet, Poet Laureate!!!

thats all i have time for... but pretty much every line has a meaning of the same kind.

Granted, it is definitely NOT aimed at your average audience. Probably without looking things up people wouldnt understand a lot of the song. But if you can comprehend all the meanings, all the ill wordplay, and all the concepts, it is a very deep song.

Yeah I understand what you mean, and I definitely agree with that. But on what you said before, about how I might just see it as amazing and really deep because of my education, that would be the case with a lot of things. But with this canibus track its basically the opposite of that. The amount of people educated enough to understand the underlying and hidden meanings in poet laureate II is very limited. Which is probably why when a lot of people listen to it, shit just flies straight in one ear and out the other.

Lol @ this dude thinking MY opinions are narrow...

So your trynna say rappers dont talk about whos the best in the game.. Are you being serious now dude? That is one of the biggest subjects thats on the mouths of almost ALL emcees whenever they get a microphone put infront of their mouth.. They wanna talk about whos wack and who they consider dope....

Your naieve as fuck Q, yeah your talking respectivly and not being harsh.. But your whole idea of hip hop is just crash and burn.. Your going about it all wrong...

But fair enough.. Music is subjective.. If you wanna overlook all the shortcommings of certain rappers because your their fan.. Then thats your choice.. I certainly wont stop you....

like I said, the song isnt wack. lyrically its nice, but its not deep.
3 sides to a story - Joe Budden is deep.
Whatever it takes - Joe Budden is deep
Poet Laureate -Canibus is not deep.

and did someone "attack him" physically or lyrically"?
cos if he was attacked lyrically, and he claims he got stuck, then thats a damn shame
and he was attacked physically and he didnt rip off their hands with the crown still attached to it, thats a shame

so, whats the short coming of Joseph Budden!?

Oh man... You got so much to learn man.. Joe budden jus aint that dope..

and he aint deep either.. What you think is deep is like "aww man i been living in the hood omg my life is so shit omg omg omg blah blah blah"

Have a fucken cry or somethin bro.. Budden aint that deep at all... And I bet he aint even lived that hard of a life.. You DO realise that record labels lie to all fuck about rappers past's to sell records right?

Didnt think so....

you keep bringin up this "record label shit" like Joe Budden is a multi platinum artist
he JUST got signed to Def Jam
his deepest songs isnt even ABOUT himself they're about OTHER PEOPLE
He dont rap about growin upo a hard life
thats just how you THINK he rap
YOU'RE the naieve one
I cant say I honestly listened to canibus and got over him
I have Can I bust, Mic CLUB and the very very garbage C True hollywood story
I've had them since I was around 13- 14 years old, man
Joe Budden is grown man music, stop judgin him sayin he rap about this and that BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY HEAR HIM
Because the way you're talkin now, its very VERY obvious that you havent heard shit from him

ROFL Grown man music... Nah dude...

Lmfao Thats going wayyy too far... This arguments getting real pathetic real fast.. Its obvious I'm arguing with cats that dont really know shit..

So I'ma end this right here man.. Have a good night rofl...

To be honest I'm not even that much into canibus... I got a lot of his songs.. But there are other rappers I listen to FAR more than him...

I only rarly crack out poet laureate and a few other songs cause I enjoy listening to them.... I only posted his lyrics cause he so badly shits on joe budden... It was just a good example...

Maybe we're talking different "deeps" here. I mean deep as in the song has a lot of hidden meanings and the experiences he is talking about are emotionally moving. The actual lyrics in the song are "deep."

Maybe you mean deep like immortal technique's dance with the devil? Its just a story, but its very well told. Theres no underlying meanings and hardly any wordplay, the meaning of the words is apparent. What makes songs like that deep is the themes being addressed and the events that take place.

I havent heard those budden joints, but they sound like they would be the second kind of "deep" that I mentioned, when with canibus, im talking about the first.

Yo Will.sun.you..

If you wanna hear shit that is actually some of my fav rapers.. Download shit by artists like Bliss N Eso, Hilltop Hoods, Tupac, Wutang, Mass MC...

Etc etc etc......
If you remember.. Hilltop hoods had that verse I posted first up and you said was pretty dope... :thumbup:

3 Sides to a story

^That is one of the best story tracks written in YEARS. Its deep as fuck, especially the 2nd verse when he's rappin from the girl perpestive

Future
Another very deep Joe Budden. His delivery in this is remarkable. A very emotional track where Joe raps about the struggle inside of him.

Stained
And this track right here is just another very emotional track. Joe Budden is one of the most emotional rappers out. Matter of fact, this song addresses YOU! Listen to the 2nd verse, in the beginning. He addresses people LIKE YOU!


Seriously, Canibus lack the finesse to rap like Joe Budden. He has lyrical skill, but delivery wise, emotional wise, HELL NO.

You just dont know what deep shit is...

Also LMFAOODFROFDLROFORLFORLF @ him rapping as a 'girl'... Bahahahhaa

So you like when grown men rap like women huh.. Thats deep to you I see...

Lol... Canibus IS 123094205349028 times better than Joe Budden.. Your jus naieve and sound like you might of got hit in the head a few too many times in your youth...

yeah
you're a Canibus dickrider
its VERY apparent now
I didnt say he was rappin as a girl, you fuckin retard
I said he rapped from the girl's perpective.
there IS a difference
wow, for someone to be so "intelligent" you sure are a fuckin dumbass.
Like I said, YOU know nothin of rap
you're a white dude born and raised in Australia.
you like NERD RAP.
Which is cool, but you ONLY like nerd rap.
you like old ass rappers
and not only are you naeieve
you're ignorant