Underground is breaking through!!!!!
 

If you saw MTV the other day you wouldve seen the interview wiht El-P...One of my personal favorite artists who has an amazing cd, Fantastic Damage out right now (shameless plug). It tlaked about his underground career and about him building his hip-hop supremecy fromt he underground. This is great for other underground rappers who will now much more exposure thanks to this interview. It will put "real" hip-hop under the microscope and will promote everything good about hip-hop. Post you thoughts...

slug and eyedea ripped up the wake up show

well eyedea ripped it up and slug ripped eyedea on his mustache

www.wakeupshow.com

How is El-P real hip-hop, and someone of commercial stature fake hiphop?

If you go back to hiphop's first established presence and listen closely, you will notice fragmented resemblences to today's commercial music. Sure there is an updated flow, and enhanced lyrics, but the true essence still remains...While little to none of underground acts can close to obtaining this. So if anyone is real hiphop, it's Nas, Jay, DMX, Cormega, ect ect...Everyone else with there unique techno beats, off beat flows, ect ect, are the outsiders to the game. And therefore now and never will be considered "real" hiphop in my eyes.

nas pun big pac jay z dre rakim tru hip hop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,r u going to disagree with me i thought not

yes i disagree

i have my own opinion as do you

good day

im not feelin El-P as a producer....or emcee...


juss not my steez...

Exactly.

Little Nice, you could have added a more mature approach to the topic, rather then a taunt to all who oppose to the popular census...

"diagree with me I dare you".

HAHA...Chill out kicko, this isnt the grade school playground.

I dont know what your talking about honestly, because actually every one is a underground artist before they go commercial, anyway you look at it. Just because they dont stay there dont mean they didnt come from there.

But i did see that special on El-P.

Obviously one's career is not made from thin air, but rather discovered. However! If you read my reply it was quite obvious I referring to a particular piece of underground hiphop, that El-p so heavily encompasses.

Juice, Vakill, Poison Pen, Celph Titled, Rhymefest, Yeshua, and a hundred plus others I have heard, are dope! Im not anti-underground. And would love to see them all reach commercial success. But I did not state this in my response above, as it had no relevance to this topic. What does pose relevance to this topic is the segregation of music, that someone who reaches commercial success is suddenly fake. This is insane, pretentious, and one big fucking generalization....

I didnt read 1 reply in the thread.. Just the guys who posted it.

I also dont listen to hardly any underground heads. Maybe 1 here or there, because the majority of the underground heads always come off to me as "mad at the commercial mc's, pissed cause they dont make the same amount of money" with more battle like material. Im trying to vibe with some shit in my car, im not looking for a punchline at all, how ever i do listen to Juice occasionally, because i like his lyrics, but it wont ever touch my car cd player. And really it rarely gets play when im home.

So i really have no clue who most underground superstar's are. I know them from people on message boards posts. Thats all.

Oh my bad, I thought your response was an attack at my response above. Anyway peace, and dont forget to email me when you need promotion for ya album...

its like this the way i feel and c this hip hop game. ur underground until u get into da mainstream scene. "underground" rappers diss or r angry cuz they aint got flo or as much succes mainstream artist. being mainstream dont mean u sell out matter of fact i dont c it as a real hip hop or fake hip hop y is battle rap or str8 lyrical trax "real hip hop" and not club trax or gangsta rap real hip hop? y is Pun real hip hop and niggaz like Snoop aint. 4 aslong as i have been hearing both artist i remember Pun dropping club joints, just like snoop, dropping gangsta raps just like snoop, etc. everybody got they own hip hop and thats it. underground, mainstream w/e its all real hip hop. wether ur Krs-1, Master P, kurupt, Nelly w/e yo aslong as u do ur music how can it b fake? just my thoughts 1

yes you are underground until you hit mainstream...thats the definition of underground vs mainstream...

and underground heads (the credible ones) are angry with the state of hiphop...what kinda culture should bring people together over bitches blunts and expensive material goods...thats no message at all...or people who use their music as advancement for themselves rather then for the culture...

fake hiphop is someone who is about something in songs but about something else...hidden agendas basically...

I agree that just because an artist is mainstream, doesn't mean he (or she) is no longer a worthwhile artist. On the other hand, sometimes excessive mainstream exposure causes art to suffer. This is a problem. The prime example of this phenomenon is Nas. It's not all his fault. With excessive success, he is brought farther and farther away from that which made him a success in the first place. Also, I agree that some mainstream artists project values that are less than worthy. The prime example of this is Jay-Z. His music often trivializes women and glorifies materialism and drug use. And even though not all of his songs tread on this subject matter, the one's that are consumed by the largest segment of the public do.

Underground hip-hop also has a few fundamental flaws. First, the recording quality is often poor. Take Benefit's EP for example. It was great, considering he spent very little money, but the quality wasn't as good as a mainstream release. Secondly, most underground artists either lack something that will make them appealing to the masses, or have something that would make them unappealing. A good example of that latter is Aesop Rock, who is an amazingly talented writer who does too much for the casual music fan to take in and appreciate.

So, both sides have their ups and downs, and neither can categorically be taken as gospel.

Peace

Im so glad to see intelligent replies in this thread...Not just ignorant beefing between reply-ers.

Yes I know theres really no such thing as "real" and "fake" hip-hop...I more or less mispoke myself and you guys took the wrong meaning away from it. What I meant by real and fake is the ideas expressed in the seperate forms. As 4eyez says above me, (and many of you others) A lot of hip-hop is objectifying women and gloryfying drug use and what not. It is cookie cutter with not a lot of people puting out anything I havent heard before. This doesnt strike me as "real" hip-hop...Not hip-hop as I have listened too or would like to hear. I prefer heads like Aesop Rock or Dose One or El-P who are a little abstract but thasts just an opinion. Sure Commerical is produced better, sounds better, they have more resources, but I like undergrond at its roots. These roots are now bound to get more exposure because of this interview and overall is good for underground hip-hop.

Keep these thoughts coming!

Versatility. On average, neither side has it like they should. I'll break this down.

Big Pun, Jay-Z, Royce Da 5'9" even. They've all blazed a club track or 4. The "real hip hop" comes into play in how they deliver it. Pun in particular could take that subject matter, and not only murder it wit his flow, he had clever shit goin on throughout (100% w/Tony Sunshine) lyrics. Cleverness. Somethin Pun, Jigga and a few other artists deliver. Snoop.... Occasionally says somethin clever, but its usually tha same cliched shit he's been sayin since Death Row fell off. Pimpin, smokin, 64's, fine. If Battlecat ain't doin ya beats, I don't wanna hear it. Basically, it ain't real hip hop if it was created completely from the "Sell records Fast" formula. U know how it goes. Platinum in the video. Benzes and Bentley's are out now. Escalades and Navigators are in. Pop Cristal and smoke weed. Fuck a lotta ho's, and pimp a few. Tell everybody what u got. Then they wonder why underground rappers speak on it and call it jealousy. Underground rappers concentrate on it cuz thats all the mainstream artist talks about. Not real. No thought put into it. Only a gimmick 4 groupies. The artist might not have even written it. They basically sell a Neptunes or Timbaland beat wit another muh'fuckaz face on it cuz a beat is all they really sellin. The way the 2 sides attack each other really bothers me. Like, how many people in here have said Eminem or Nas sold out? My man Nelly said this best. 2 be Pop means 2 be Popular (duh). Every artist wants this. Why do u want 2 be in the business and not be popular. It borders on the King that marries his daughter 2 the neighbors prince 4 the sake of tradition. She doesn't wanna fuck him, much less does she love him. But because thats what this society believes in, its just gotta be done. So if I blow next week, I lose my Freestyle Fellowship Membership. Not that I changed anything. Just that I relocated from the projects 2 tha burbs. Nas ain't real cuz he's got money and can afford tha big house on the hill that everyone wants? If u make millions of dollars, its not logical, nor is it safe 2 stay in the hood. Stick around Compton wit a sky high bank account so niggaz can rob yo ass. Yeah right. The question is HOW u become popular. Eminem, as far as I can tell ain't changed a damn thing. Or were u all expecting him 2 do what canibus did and release a whole album of battle raps? He had his "gimmick" of pissing people off, fine. I can understand that, cuz thats a personal mission of mine. Piss some people off. I can tell, he kinda likes 2 be the bad guy. Its fun. He's Popular. But he didn't trade any of his talent away 2 get there. And he's truly encompassed every aspect of the game people respect. Realness. Lyrical dexterity. Even a talent 4 storytelling and imagery. And if the Eminem Show wasn't indication enuff that he's starvin 4 respect, u just plain hatin. (Did I just say the H word?) Changing your style 2 go pop is the problem. Sometimes, I think the question could be whether or not some of these artists had anything 2 offer 2 begin with. I hear Cashmoney was a little grimier before they got big. Grimey don't make u real. Baby don't even rap 4real. Ghostwriter on damn near every verse. My thought is "If u can't do this, why are u here?" He oughta do what Suge does (what Diddy shoulda done) and stayed behind the desk handlin biz like he's supposed 2. Gangsta don't make u real. Grimey don't make u real. Battlin don't make u real. Real hip hop is creative. Clever. Versatile. Thought provoking. Fun. Its Nigganometry. It's I Gave You Power. It's So Many Tears. It's What You See is What u Get. It's Girls, Girls, Girls. If u can incorporate any or all of that into your style, u're real. And on that note.....

"/I'll get twisted off a 5th of Sprite and fuck yo image/"
-Venom Tha Tiger Dragon

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
thanks,.that's the shit i was waitin to hear.

Oh ok I get it now. So your "real" hip hop if you have cleverness in your rhymes? Blah, catch my sarcasm to the mouth young kicko. Your post sounded ridiculous.

lol...

i think if ur a hip hop head u should see all forms of hip hop, from mainstream to independent.
Hell, i Love Underground Heads Like Lone cats, FiveDeez Etc.. But i Like Mainstream heads also.

Cormega is Real Hip hop, And So is Juice.. But i Guess Its a Matter of Opinion.

peace

Juice and Cormega being Examples..

i'm glad to see El-P gettin a little shine...he's pretty good, but his production is starting to get a little bland to me...you can only loop different spacey sound effects for so long before it gets old...i loved the cann ox CD but wasn't feelin his as much...but that's not even the point here...the point is will this MTV thing cause El-P to get any type of shine? No, it won't...it may introduce a few new people but 90% of the people i've shown cann ox to have hated it...it's a sound u hafta take the time to get used to and most commercial consumers are not willing to do that...and besides that, it misses a big element that is very needed for commercial success of hip hop...u can not dance to this shit...i don't care what anyone says but to blow up now in hip hop u gotta have some dance appeal to at least some of ur music...

so yeah, glad to see him get that special...but i honestly don't think it's gonna lead to anything special for him...until someone is willing to combine deep concepts with upbeat, dance worthy music, i don't see there being a big cross over from the underground...this can be done...but no one wants to be called a sell out so it's not...

Ona side note 100% of people Ive shown Can OX have loved it...

you are right about having to appeal to the masses...I said this in a post in another thread a few days...I like abstract though...Such as Can Ox, El-P Dose One...that is just me speaking.

But think about it....(this is hypothetical) say nobody that watches MTV ever heard of El-P... Now they see this special and are curious. 75% of those that see the special buy his album or donload his tracks fromt he net. about 40% hate it and will never give him a chance again. 20% like it but not enough to bump it anywhere...maybe they tell htier friends...the remaining 15% buys his album...loves it and tells everyboyd they know..They bump it everywhere and continue this chain.

Do you see what Im saying...theres now way in hel that 100% of the people that saw it hate it...So, through the grapevine El-P reaches the masses that would have nveer known about him. Overall Its good...so It doesnt matter if some dislike him...If even 1 likes him, the chain continues...

word, i feel u...the title of this was underground emcees breaking through though and i don't believe this will lead to El-P becoming a star or being placed in mainstream knowledge...that's what i consider breaking through...this isn't gonna reshape hip hop and put a new star on the map...just gonna give him a little publicity...

I really hate when people try and define "real hip hop" or try to label something "real hip hop" that shits reallllllll gay. Hip hop is hip hop, no real or fake hip hop, just hip hop, people who hate on other people are the 1's saying "oh he not real hip hop" just like KRS's non selling album ass, trying to call himself "real hip hop" and throwing diss's to people just because they sell alot more then he do... that shits GAY!

Theres no such thing as real or fake hip hop, if you like something, bump it, if not, dont listen and dont try to put a label on it just because you dont like it, simple as that. People like KRS one amongst others who seem to hate on commercial rap because they dont sell as much anymore are the people I wont listen to, not because they not good, but because they not spittin shit i can relate to..

So to sum it up, theres no real or fake anything, theres not a single person on this message board or any other one who can label anything real or fake, when they have NO SUCCESS AT ALL in neither underground or commercial, and if im wrong, show me where your names sittin on the billboard top 10 list and prove me wrong. Or any top 10 list that didnt origate on a web page for that matter.

Seems some people think "yay i made top 10 on soundclick, now my opinion matters" or mp3.com, to me thats just showing u can spam, cause theres some garbagggeeeeee ass emcee's on these boards who break top 5 on mp3.com and soundclick. and any of the others...

thats all...

I Missed Tha EL-P Interview.. :(

Half Of Y'all Are Straying Away From What This Actual Topic Is..

I'll Admit A Lil TV Exposure Might Help EL-P Gain A Few More Listeners..

But Blackalicious Releasing "Make You Feel That Way" To A Mainstream Public Is Tha Real Way That Any Underground Artist Is Going To Make A Breakthrough..

Cause I Kno People Who Have Never Heard Of And I Would Never Have Thought Cared About That Style Of Music, Taking An Interest In It And Even Buying Blazing Arrow..

And Gift Of Gab Didn't Even Have To Change His Rhyming Style To Sell..