what the fiduck man....
 

... seriously... underground hip hop culture is making me sick... 1 year, everyones on 50's dick cause he's making so much cash. Now everyones on Talib's or Mos Def's or Atmosphere's dick cause they "so real". stfu all of you.

Listen to music you like, and quit fucking hating. If you ain't like it? WHO GIVES A FUCK. Go listen to your lyrical gods and memorize all their lyrics so you can quote them to all your pals on aim showing each other who is the biggest fag.

1) Jay is one of the top 5 "rappers" ever. If he ain't on your list, who cares. That would make it your top 5 'opinion' list. Jay-Z made hip hop what it is today, like it or not, and how many other rappers can say that? I can count them on one hand. Rakim, Big, Pac, and maaaybe a few others.

2) Saying a rapper who has gone platinum on everything is 'wack' is like saying any player in the NFL is "unathletic". Obviously he's good at something you fucking retards. And yes, I know Nelly went platinum. He is good at making club jams. I would NEVER put him on my top 50 LYRICISTS list, but saying he ain't a good 'rapper' is something totally different.

3) Being an ill LYRICIST is, and is not the same thing as being a rapper. Look at 50. He's a 'rapper', but he is nooooo lyricist. He's a hook maker like Ja. On the flip side of thing, I would consider John Lennon a LYRICIST, but he's no rapper. feel me?

4) Quit confusing your 'favorite' rapper lists, or 'best lyricist' lists, with best rappers. The best rappers are the guys we all know, and for those who said Jay-Z isn't a household name are retarded. If anyone even knows what hip hop is, they know Jay-Z's name. My mom doesn't know shit about hip hop, but she knows who Jay-Z is. Jus cause your neighbors live with you in uk-tuk-ta-yuck-tuck and don't have cable, and Jay hasn't hit National Geographic yet, so they don't know his name, doesn't mean his name isn't household. Be real with yourselves, and give your heads a shake.

word.

1

Maaaan... Listen...

For starters Jay Z is not in the top 5 rappers of all time... I am literally shocked you would say something like that.... He may be in the top 20/30 considering elements such as success and mass appeal... But top 5 is an amazingly ignorant exaduration..

As for being a household name... Ofcourse he is... Hes been around for what.. 20 years or so? The dudes over 40 years old... He is an average lyricist.. His music is also fairly average considering the amount of time hes been rapping and the amount of money that gets thrown at his production... The guy bites lines and even entire paragraphs at times to spruce up his songs hiding his unorigionality by saying he bites out of 'respect' AND he has ghost writers... See, there are 100 rappers that are far more talented musically but simply wernt in the right place at the right time like he was...

People have respect for Jay because hes been in the game for a long ass time and most people started listening way back when he was slightly more small time and wasnt really trynna take anything over... Now a days its different...

Rap music is an industry that needs a leader... And Jay Z fell into that spot simply because everyone else that was filling that slot either got killed or retired long before.. And there is absolutly no problem with that... However I will tell it to you straight up.. He possesses absolutly no qualitys of a leader.. He is un-origional and it is simply not acceptable for rap to be led by such a weak artist..... Which is the reason why Jay Z pisses me off so much, its NOT even a skill thing.. He got put in a high up podium and he aint done jack shit but fuck around and weaken the image of rap by strengthening negative steriotypes and doing very little on a real scale towards the progression of the art form itself...

Now I have NO problem with people being Jay Z fans.. I have NO problem with people enjoying his music.. My problem with him lies in the backwards mindframe he has spread around the rap game.. And I would have the same problem with any other rapper in his position doing what hes doing...

As for the underground.. I agree... Underground rappers these days are increasingly becomming snobby little bitches that think they are so amazingly skilled when in reality they lack mass appeal and musical talent..... Part of this problem is due to the internet and its general views on lyricism...

I will say though... Lyricism IS what rap is about.. Hooks and instrumentals are the tools utalised in order to make your poetic lyricism sell... But in order to gain appeal, an artist has to have both.... And I wont lie.. To an extent, Jay has both... But he isnt a master of either like people make him out to be.

And he is NOT top 5.

And by the way..

You say "Jay-Z made hip hop what it is today" as if the hip hop industry ISNT royally fucked in the ass at the moment..

:rolleyes:

damn... You just summed up my thoughts exactly..

but about the mos def and talib. lmao.. they been dope since blackstar.. listen to blackstar and you'll see why we say there "real".. they address african american problems.. which is real to me. kanye aint the first to do it......


but if peoepl are just NOW getting on mod def and talib, they wayyyyyyyy late..

but for real.. jayz is so far beneath so many people on a lyrical scale it aint even funny.. 10 artists that eat him up lyrically...


Mos def
Common
Pac
Biggie
Eminem (ate Jay on his own track - let alone any other CD's he put out WITH GhostWriters)
Rakim
WuTang Clan (Only the good ones... Method Man and Such)
Fugees (Mind you they were fuckin poets)
Tribe Called Quest
shit De La Soul
Pharcyde

Jayz aint shit compared to the essences of hip hop....

but he is successful and he got money.. so i guess that means hes the best...

no wait.. that just means he was a drug dealer and all his idiot ass brothern are also drug dealers.. so they can relate to him..

for what he is, a rapper who relates to alot of peoples strugle, hes a good listen..
but skill wise, he just dont measure up to a head "real" to hip-hop.. hes a rapper... rap and hip-hop arent the same.. hip-hop is a culture and jayz is just perpetuating rich white people (our government ------ Keep following me, you can do it guys), to think we are idiots with no education. They already think we are incapable of being able to handle having money, we dont need the dumbest niggas in the limelight.. such as 50 & jayz....

im sure ima catch heat for the hip-hop comment.. but fuckit.. my opinion and my dick is always around.. so suck it ;)


ps. I STIL LOVE YOU PHENY :)

you all are faggots. nobody cares.

idk i honestly think this WHOLEEEshit would never be an issue unless this cam ron thing came out ..before this jay-z was ill and he real and he the best but i guess cam made jay uncool so now its time for jay to be like ja










SORRY NO BOOK :huh:

i actualy agree w basicly everything phenom jus said....and LOLOLO @ uk-tuk-ta-yuck-tuck

pure truth, ive given up on it though now, just allow the ignorant dick riders to keep biggin jigga up for biting lines.... but also nobody needs to forget jigga also bites concept... 03 bonny n clyde... bitten from a 2pac song(including the hook)

That Song Was A Remake And A Tribute Song In Honor Of Great Work Done By Pac Yall Just Reachin Now And I Dont Really Like Jay But Not For These Fake Ass Reasons Everyone Lookin For Someone To Hate And Leady Every Post Ive Seen From You Is Arrogant And Ignorant

yo...they were about 2 diff things anyway....it was kinda lame that jay turned a good song about a gun into a song about some ho but...ehh ya know...he's a old man now...lol...but wasent "bit" ..a mural of pac was even in that video man

y do people act like its bullshit wen JayZ says that hes showin respect wen he bites these lines........???? it makes no sense to think he's bitin other peoples lines and hopin people wont recognize it...... cuz he's "bit" off albums that went platinum.... he OBVIOUSLY knows he wouldnt get away with it..... and most the shit people say he bit arent even good lines..... most of em arent punches or anythin real lyrical.......

and there have also been a few times where people have sed "he bit so and so" and ive heard the two lines....... and i just think its the same concept...... i mean, kids on rv use the same concepts 3 million times on this site, i think there are gonna be a couple times wen JayZ with his 2 million songs is gonna have a concept similar to one of the other billion rappers and kids that call themselves emcees......

im not even a big Jay fan, but i think people are stupid for thinkin that wat Jay is doin is bitin........ i mean, someone tell me the reason behind his biting..... knowing that he knows theres no way he would pass off 90% of those lines as his own wen he takes most of em from hit singles and platinum rappers..... it might be a sellin records thing...... but shit, i wanna sell records, and im sure all of u wanna do to.....

and this is besides the fact that almost every beat that comes out today has a sample from some other song, with the kanye west style....... and kids drool all over them...... thats alot more unoriginal (altho i like alotta sampled instumentals) than any bitin jay has done

even if u gave me like 100 or so lines Jay bit, i still wouldnt say that that should put a dent in his skills seeings that hes prolly written and recorded over a 100s of songs, with lets say 3 16 line verses for each........

blah (is finished with rampage)

Lmao @ telling people they're idiots for prefering lyrics over hooks.

LMAO @ Jay-Z not possessing greater qualities than the greats.

Tell me, who can flow on any beat like Jay? Who can switch up styles like Jay? Are you gonna tell me Jay didn't outshine Biggie on Brooklyn's Finest? Are you gonna say Jay, lyrically, is not better than Pac? Not content or w/e the fuck ya'll wanna say, lyrically Pac ain't fucking with Jay-Z.

Fuck it, Pac is part of why hip hop is how it is. "I'mma Thug, THUG LIFE!!!" And he hadn't been on that shit till he was fucking with Death Row. Now everyones a thug aren't they? Pac fucking shooting at cops and shit. That shit was what you call a publicity stunt.

Stop hating.

AMEN Phenom


I agree 100% with you on this.


Lyrically and flow wise, Jay is one of the nicest around today, not to mention he's my favorite emcee.

People on RV do have a hard time differentiating between "favorite" and "accomplished".

werd........... i feel like uppin all these threads

if jay is lyrically better than pac, why has he used 2pac lines????

Exactly as calamity put it

In accomplishments/money making in RAPPING yes Jay is probably the best around today

but LYRICALLY and HIP HOP...theres a shitload of people better then Jay, you jay dickriders need to get that through your heads, jay is NOT fucking with some others in lyrics, its just not happening.

EXACTLY... n half the lyrics arent jays anyway

Oh man...

There are some real straight up fools on this website.

Some people just got no idea.

All right this is getting old. People are goonna like Jay til the end and always defend him. SOme think he's nothin but a biter. Some think he just sucks. ALL OF YOU HAVE OPINIONS SO FUCKIN DEAL WITH IT AND STOP MAKING THESE THREADS! In everyone's opinion Jay Z is something different. If you can't agree to disagree then you'll just be posting saying virtually the SAME SHIT just worded different...OH WAIT JAY Z DID THAT AND HE IS TEH B1t3R!! (So say all of you...I wouldn't have nown had it been brought up). Now I could give a FUCK what Jay Z does cuz he's not doin shit for me or my family (Unless he makes a good song that my fams likes...then I guess he did something) because I don't even listen to songs unless someone I know has said it's good. I prefer to listen and write my own shit, so I'm unbiased. Now Jay Z is arguably one of the best, so obviously he did SOMETHING right.Just for that he shoul get some respect (About as much as you'd give 50 Cent. At least.), but disputingwhether he 'bit' or 'paid tribute' is dumb becauseif you like Jay you'll dispute one case and if you hate him you'll dispute the opposite. Seriously if Cam hadn't started this beef would you really give a fuck? GO back and look at the thread in Hip Hop Talk from before Cam dropped the track and see if ANYTHING remotely talks of Jay Z and biting. But since Cam said some wack ass beef track everyone is either on Jay's dick or cutting off Jay's dick. All I wanna say is leav the man's dick alone and let him do what he does best, which would seem to me is make songs that millions like and millions hate but millions will buy.

ya'll TOTYALLY missed my point.... obviously skipped the part where i said 'top 5 "rappers", is different than top 5 "lyricists".

thanks for reading thoroughly. word.

1

If you're refering to me then I said that was your opinion in the first all caps sentence. If not then disegrard this post and here...a cupcake. *hands cupcake*

Thats exactly what I was thinking when Q responded to you...I was like wtf? he just said the opposite of what you said, oh well.

For this comment, you are officially a Retard. Pac was a poet. Just because he screamed Thug Life dont mean shit. Not all of his songs consisted of "Thug" mentality. The way Pac Put words together was amazing. Jayz talks over beats.. and lyrically all he says "Im the Mahfuckin Greatest man".. "jayz's the name, this is my claim to fame".. after 100 songs of this, im sry, its boring.. jayz aitn shit but a collection of old ass lyrics from OTHER artists..

i cant beleive you actually sit here and place Jayz on pacs OR biggies level.. Biggies flow is monstrous.. Jayz has a medeocre flow at best.. im just being honest..

and pac did wtf he wanted to do.. his outside life shouldnt matter.. its about his music.. jayz sold drugs and admittedly ssays it.. hes so much better......

Nos is literally shocked!! :shocked:

did you listen to any of Phenom's points
no, as usual, you didnt...

oh, and btw... he's not "over 40," he's mid-late 30's

No I did... And thats exactly what I replied to...
I even talked to him on msn about it...

By the sounds of it you didnt even read anything I said either....

I got your point and i agree. he is one of the top 5 Most Famous and liked rappers..

but im schooling these 16 year old kids who cant differenciate lyricism and status..

but i feel your point.

ahhhhhhhh arent u like 17-18?

'03 Bonnie & Clyde > Me and My Girlfriend :cool:

I've never liked Jay Z, not sure why, I just don't.

KAnye West is the biggest biter i know