Time.
 

Time is pretty wierd ay. It's wierd how we humans love to put a measure on everything, even things like events, which are impossible to measure or gauge. Also, I don't believe one bit that present is caused by the past.

Time is movement...


Thats all...

Movement in what way?

Do you believe that what happens in the present happens because of what happened in the past?

yup..concdiering where u are is prolly a totally different time then it is right here in mass. haha like we got different time zones..b/c the earth is round..and too keep the same amount of light in a day every where..we cut the world into different zones..to keep up woth the sun.....dunno if thats what ur really getting at..but i thought of it while reading hahah

you needa be more specific about that...b.c if i burnt my house down last year..i wouldnt be here right now.....so yeah..what we do effect the future....but idk abotut he time part

Thats bull though. Are you saying that the now I am experiencing right this very moment is not the exact now that you are experiencing? Of course it is.

yeah..but where do u live? its prolly darker or lighter...u might be in the middle of a sunnny day..its dark where i am now....im saying...time isnt anything....its just the paosition of the easrth roatating....

The amount of light where I am has nothing to do with time. Time isnt anything? Then why are you existing -_-.

I believe in cause and effect.

And obviously for any effect to occur the cause must have happened in the past.

Are you trying to say the past has no effect on the future?

You stupid cunt...

what would TIME have to do with ME existing??

MANKIND...invented time...we made it up....so ur saying the cave men all had alarmclocks to wake em up at the crakc of dawn??? time has NOTHIN to do with me existing...humans made time up....

im sure if you could talk to animals...and asked them, what TIME the eat...they wouldnt tell you around 5. they'll say when im hungry. hgaha time isnt real my friend

OK. Lets think of an effect as an event, in regards to the concept of cause and effect. One example of an event is the birth of a baby.

You could regard the cause of an event as its beginning. So when did this event, the birth of a baby, begin? What caused it? Does it begin the moment the mother goes into labour? It could begin the moment the child was conceived. It could have been caused by the hormones in the father that caused sexual lust, or the production of the sperm or ova in the parents. It could have been caused by the parents' birth, or their parents birth, or their parents birth, or theirs. We don't know what REALLY caused the event at all.

Howbout another example... A war. The first world war. This event, when did it begin (when was it caused), how long did it go for, and when did it end?

Well, you'd say that the cause of the war was this country doing this, and the regime of this or that country, and so on. You'd say that the war began in 1914 and ended in 1918. When in fact, all the things that led up to the first world war started long before 1914, and the repercussions of that war have continued long beyond 1918. How are we to distinguish an event from its repercussions? The time that we slapped onto the war and called it's duration is purely random. They chose two of the many aspects of the event and labeled them the start and finish.

Cause and effect is a flawed concept, because it regards every event in time as a seperate event. In reality there is no seperate events.

Lets say I was sitting down and looking through the slit of a fence, and a snake slithered past. Through the slit, first I see it's head, then its body, and then it's tail. You cause and effect guys go "ah! the head is the cause of the tail!" But that is purely a misconception. What I can see through the slit, is the present, right? I see the beginning of the snake, and then the whole snake until it ends at the tail. This doesnt mean that the head is the cause of the tail, the snake is one whole.

We didn't invent time, we just named it, and then foolishly tried to measure it.

Mankind invented the measurement, ft. Does that mean that the space between you and the wall closest to you doesnt exist, because it is possible to measure it in ft?

I am not talking about time in regards to numbers. I'm talking about time in regards to time.

aight..well time..dont have to do with the distance between me and the wall...thats not time at all?? lol and time...as in...the earth wraps aroudn the sun.....its continues never ending....time..is continuouse...yeah we made up the measurments in time..like 6'oclock and that shit...

Time has nothing to do with the earth moving around the sun.

im saying...we measure time..by sunlight an shit..and im saying time i snever endning....cant be measured..by it dont re-lap it self...its continouse..... i was getting at we think about time as in day and night.......and ur comment about..the distance between me and the wall...not exsiting if it went for time....was totally retarded... lol but i no wut ir sayina botu the other shit

It was an analogy. You said time doesnt exist because humans invented it, I said we didnt invent it and you might as well say distance doesnt exist because we invented ft, which measures distance. I know that time is continuous, and I have never once been talking about it in relation to day and night, or 8pm type stuff, except in response to you, when you were talking about it.

"what would TIME have to do with ME existing??"

Ask God how he's going for me.

i meant TIME...as in meausrments... b.c i thought u were talking about it, someoen said osmething about it..idk...but yeah i get wut ur sayin...im not sayin a dissagree..i agree lol....were getting words mix'd..and tryin ta say the same thing...its all good

oh..an i dont beilve in 'god' concidering we made him up to.... we wrote the books man....

lmao. Dont start a whole other argument here.

haha that one could go on for ever... so well leave it for another thread in the future... lol

A new born baby

--

Cause - Sex
Effect - Child birth

--

A war

--

Cause - Innitial action taken by a country
Effect - Countries work to defend themselves and take out the offending nation's military powers.

--

You are thinking of these things based on what may have led up to the cause and all other causes that cause the cause to happen in the first place......

....... :nono:

Ok?

Time rolls on basically with neverending causes and neverending effects that spawn new causes.

Ok?

The snake thing-- The first inch of the snake goes through the fence, which is the effect of muscles moving in that snakes body propelling it forward.

What your saying is basically misinterpreting the concept of cause and effect. Which by the way is a steady law of physics thats been in place for hundreds of years and nobody has ever found a reason to prove it wrong or call it a misconception.

If the greatest scientific minds of the last 5 or 6 centuries couldnt find any reason for it to be a misconception, then I guess we should all hail John Nigro of sydney for finally putting to rest that awful myth that is newtons laws of physics..

Whats next for you man? Are you gonna attack einsteins theory of reletivity?

Maybe you wanna put forward an argument that the sky is actually green and our eyes are just playing tricks on us...

............Whats that?

You got something to say man?

yeah...this topic has been discussed...thnc for breakin it down killa haha ur about 15 posts too late for it haha

Eh?

Like any of your posts were worth reading...

worth reading?.... my posts wear half the conversation..me an what's his face were talkin....

A & B conversation..so C ya way out

....... lol thought it was a good time to say that.

I don't have time for time. Jk. Time is like.. .. . .. .... . . .. .. .... . the shit, yo. [/pothead]

Wanna know the real deal man?

I'm sitting here chatting to omb on msn and your just some cunt who posted a bunch of crap while I was away from the comp.

Then I came back to talk and ignored everything you said because you wernt even making a good contribution to the argument.

hahaha word. these topics could go one for so long if we were sitting around smokin a fat blunt lol

hey heres the real deal....no one is listing to you.... byebye. hahaha

Cool man..

Whatever helps you sleep at night...


I almost feel sorry for you that you dont realise its compleatly the other way around...

yeah..no one listing to me...when were ignoring you and having a conversation..... lol

imma jus go to bed...b/c i deal with retards liek you enoguh during the day.. lol peaace


and go ahead say soemthign after i sign off...just so u can feel good that i didnt come back and say something b.c im sleepin... haha right

There you go, trying to name a cause and effect.

Cause: Sex

Was the cause sex? What caused the sex? What caused the cause of the sex? Why wasnt the cause the fertilization of the egg by the sperm?

Effect: Childbirth

Was it? You could say the effect was pregnancy. You could say the effect was a loss of money due to the cost of raising a child.

What cause and effect does, is pick two tiny little parts of a continuous flow, and label one a cause and the other an effect. Sure, maybe the cause is A cause, and the effect is AN effect, but they are not THE cause and effect. We label these things, and then we forget that we did it, and we are left with a puzzle. What is the actual cause, or the actual effect? What makes these events lead to eachother? In reality, we never even had to call events causes or effects in the first place, because there are no seperate events.

Life moves along like water in a river. It is all connected, just as the river is connected to it's mouth and the ocean, and all of the "events" or things going on are like whirlpools in the stream. Because you go there today, and you see a whirlpool. You go there tomorrow, and you see a whirlpool... But it isnt the same whirlpool, because all the water is changing every second. What is happening is not what we should call A whirlpool... It is more like a "whirlpooling," it is an activity, not a thing. In this way, every so called "thing" can be called an event. A house is not a house, its a "housing," a cat is not a cat, its a "catting." We look at a flame and say, there is a flame on top of that candle, when it would be more correct to say there is a "flaming" on top of that candle.

We do not need the idea of causality to describe how a prior event influences a following event, because it just flows.

ANY events cause can be traced back to the beginning of time. Like a child who behaves badly, he might say "well its not my fault, my parents brought me up badly." When you go to the parents they say their parents brought them up badly, and you cant go to hassle the grandparents because theyre dead, but if you could it would trace all the way back to adam and eve eating the fruit in the garden of eden. And you could ask her and she'd say "Oh, it wasnt my fault, the serpent persuaded me to eat the fruit." Then you could go to the serpent and say "Why did you make eve eat that fruit?" ... And he would probably wink. He knows that the present is the cause of everything, and the past does NOT drive the present, if anything, the PRESENT drives the PAST.

In actual life, the idea of cause and effect is useless. It's only use is naming the shallow causes and effects that we pick out of a continous, eventual flow completely arbitrarily.

In that post, youve said that cause and effect is a misconception because there is more than one section of cause and effect happening at the same time.


What I did was label and innitial cause, the reason a baby came out of said woman, was because at some point in time she had sex. (ignoring artificial insemination for argument sake) The reasons 'why' she had sex have nothing to do with a baby comming out, although they are connected in the sense that they happened in a long line of cause and effects leading up to when the spoof squirted into her poon and started looking for an egg to fetalise..

Later, the egg was firtalised, and the effect of that was a fetus began to grow.. continually spawning new causes and new effects.

Sorry man, but you just played yourself in your own argument...

Yes things happen on a continious line, similtaniously even, but there will always be a cause and an effect. Because if there wasnt, there would be no event.

Just like, if I was to punch you in the head for absolutly no reason. That would be the cause of pain you experience afterwards. If a car engine blew up, there would also be an underlying cause for that to happen. If a tree falls down in the middle of a forest, there would be a cause for that to happen.

And so on.

Its not an irrelevant phenomenon at all.

Why does time move forward? Because things change ever so slightly due to new events occuring right before our eyes. There is no 'present', because time is a compleatly human fabricated concept, we measure our time on many things, from pendulum swings, to the period of measured time the earth takes to rotate around the sun formulated by made up counting systems.

Trust me man, I basically just finished reading a thick ass book on the history of human time measurement and its origins... If there is a cause that leads to an effect, something has obviously changed therefore an occurance in the past has altered the state of future we exist in.


.........Yep...

Cause and effect is a useless concept because it is describing two parts of the same thing as two completely different things. There is no event that causes an event, there is no event that is caused by an event, there is no cause and effect which makes up one event, all there is is the eventuality of existence.

Cause: Movement of your fist.
Effect: Pain in my head.

Frankly, who gives a shit. You punched me in the head. That event came out of nowhere, occured, and then dissolved into nothing. BANG! There it is. Now it's gone. Cause? The cause can be traced back until the beginning of time. Effect? Me losing a few brain cells. Maybe I didn't go out because I had a headache, which meant my car wasnt in the traffic, which meant somebody somewhere crashed because he wasn't a few seconds later, or maybe somebody was slightly earlier which meant they ate sooner, which meant they got out of there sooner and went to work and made it on time so their boss wasnt angry and if he was angry he would have taken his anger out on something, which would have led to something else, which would have lead to something else, and so on.

Its like an infinte web of events meant that at that exact moment you punched me in the head, and because of that event another infinite web of events will occur.

Yes. Cause and effect does exist, you could name one cause and on effect of something. But its useless to do that. You are looking through this tiny little narrow lens, focusing on something completely insignificant in the entire scheme of things.

Why does time move forward? Because everything is changing ever so slightly because of little tiny events that happen before our eyes? No... Is time even moving forward? That is part of the complete man-made misconception that you mentioned later in that paragraph. On the contrary, the only thing that does exist is the present. Things dont "change slightly" things are "changing." The entire universe comes straight at us every single moment, BANG BANG BANG continuously, forming "now." All we do is try to logically string it together, stringing events together, when actually existence IS the event. Existence is constantly changing, the present is constantly changing, the only thing that does matter is the present, because the present creates both the "past" and the "future."

Close your eyes for a second, and experience reality through your ears. You will notice that every sound just suddenly pops out of nowhere, then dissolves back into silence. Now, you might say but there is one continuous sound, my computer is making noise constantly. But at some point it wouldnt have been, and at some point it will stop making noise. You have no idea when, it will just stop some time when you decide to turn it off.

Its harder to see this with your vision, because everything appears static. When actually, it is coming out of nowhere, straight at you now, and then dissipating into the past and your memory. BANG. And reality flows in this way, sort of like a vibration. Like a light bulb's light, which appears static but isnt.

Cause and effect is an irrelevant concept that attempts to define an event through our narrow ideas of reality. There is no cause and effect, there is only now, which is one continuously flowing event.

word to that.

what do you think of the other coordinate of 3D existance, 'space' OMBizzle? we concieve that all things consume a 'space' when string theory shows that in reality nothing other than gravity has any substance or density at all. There's numerous other universes, nebulae etc less than a millimeter away from you, vibrating on frequencies you and your 3D existance do not.

Hmmm... All that stuff is interesting. But I don't really concern myself too much with it. I have space to stretch, and my bed fits nicely into its space in the corner.

1st of all, the principle of causality will be shattered as soon as Milgrom and Wang's new physics obliterate Einstein's theories.

^^Well, that may not happen. However, events happening before the cause have been shown to happen in lab, to some extent.

Don't fool yourself though. Consequences, positive or not, are a result of a culmination of events, starting on a molecular level.





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