Going against the Masses
 

aiight...i'll be the first to admit it...i do NOT think Biggie and 2Pac are the best of all time....maybe the best RAPPERS, in the most strict use of the word...but overall emcee, or overall lyricist...no, not even close....i think its gotten to a point where they are just accepted as the best and never questioned...maybe because they are dead (yes even pac)...they rhyme about the same thing people do now...the same way too...and there were people before them who did it...definately way overrated....
and Tupac was a hipocrite in my eyes....he preached about getting out of the ghetto and stopping all this shit....but then on the next track brags about shootin cats and how much of a thug he is....he makes "Baby Dont Cry"....and then makes...."California Love".....listen to those two right after each other and tell me he isnt the least bit hipocritical....
And please stop all ideas of 50, Jay Z, or Nas being the best...Big L as well....they arent...never will be...Big L was about as good as canibus...but being dead builds u up a lot....I like Nas, but no...JayZ is THE most overrated rapper of all time...50 Cent is the fastest played out rapper of all time...and his shit is no different from the next guy........
agree, disagree....lets hear some opinions....and dont just come in here and bitch at me cuz i dissed your favorite rapper...lets get some intelligent arguments here...
LP

uhhh well i agree wit u in a sence.
tha how peolpe say that biggie was grea or 2pac "god how great he is" without considerin how "hipocritical" he really is yes u do make a ppoint about those 2 songs. but u also hafta agree that those 2 were gifted talented artists but hey wiono wat i am talkin bout i am whitelol

Well....you also have to look at the fact that most of the people making those claims are 14 year old white wannabe gangstas who sit on the computer all day long bragging about the guns they don't own.

Personally......I think Aesop Rock is the best......but it is all on a matter of opinion.....I can find people who agree....and others who disagree......

But it is a proven fact that 50 Cent is garbage

^^^are you saying mostly 14 year olds listen to pac?

i dont say pac is the best but he is one of the best. you cant say that pac isnt dope. if you say pac isnt dope its obvious that you dont listen to him. or your tring to be cool by only like underground rappers.

i dont care how hypocritical he is, i could relate to shit he says. he comes gangster cause thats what he was but he also knew things needed to change and their is more to life then being a gangster.i see nothing wrong with that. and to say pac isnt a lyricist is retarded, a lyricist isnt someone that uses big words a lyricist is someone that can put his thoughts in to words and turn them to songs with meaning and make you think.

big was dope on ready to die but thats his only CD that i really liked

nas is amazing to me, he comes with the best shit out of the mainstream, and he never fallows one style.he never fallows what everyone else does he could do deep shit, he could do songs in reverse, he could do it all nas is amazing. not the best but top 3 in my opinion

jay-z was good on reasonable doubt but after that i dont like him

50 is trash

big L is dope but not one of the best.

my top 3 are rakim, pac, and nas

but who the fuck are you to tell people what thier opinions on music should be? if someone thinks pac is the best, or 50 is the best, let them. who the fuck are you to tell people to stop calling them the best of all time.

and who is the greatest..uh Recca..?

tupac and biggie.... are hip hop heroes...

one of these im gonna find an rb thread which i hasnt been made before.

today is not that day. and shut the fuck up about big l, he was beyond dope.

because they are dead. if they were alive today they wouldnt be held in such high regards. just like when Aaliyah died....her album was what? #50 on the billboards? the next week she was #1. when people die they all of a sudden get alot of fans...

I agree with recca to a certain extent....2pacs and biggies shit was not THAT great when it came to actual lyrical ability, they always rapped about similar things and they were hypocritical to themselves.....but the fact that THEIR SHIT CAME OUT SOUNDING GOOD AND WAS REAL CRAP THAT PPL COULD RELATE TO made them the greatest rappers who ever lived (2pac anyway, im not that big a fan of biggie)......................... in my personal opinion, Eminem ( i hope you guys are open minded enough not to discriminate him becoz of his color-and yes, i am white too) and NAS are the best when it comes to pure lyrical skills-wordplay, originality, and interest.

ps. no offense or anything, but how come almost everyone on these boards hates 50 cent? (No bullshit answers like "he just sucks" or "he has no talent" honest answers and reasons plz....thanks)

pps. i dont think 50 cent sucks, but hes not a god either

^because he tries to use a "gangsta" image to market his shit to 14 year olds while rapping about how hes hard even thought JaRule beat his ass.....twice. he rhymes the same words together and sometimes doesnt even rhyme at all. hes shit. pure and simple.

What drew people to Pac when he was alive wasn't his lyrics is was his forwardness to say whatever he felt at the time, which could shift from "Fuck Badboy" to "We need to get out the ghetto", he was not as hypocritical as he was emotional, and he reacted on emotion. It was like interviewin someone with moods swings, you get whatever he is at that point.

Biggie never impressed me at all, I still don't like him and I'm weary about buyin his albums even tho I make a point to cop any artists album to enjoy those hidden tracks that stand out on a album. I prolly have heard a few nice songs from him but his flow was so ugly, that damn voice of his could sometimes ruin the sound of a track to me. I saw no future for him then, still don't.

I don't feel like commentin on anyone else cuz I'm lazy like that....

Re: Going against the Masses
 

I def agree that Biggie and Pac are overrated. Itz all been done da same way before..

I thin that there debate was more popular then there music. If you eva bring Pac or Biggie into a conversation, how many people do u honestly know that will say somethin about there music? Fuck no. They talk about da shootin and shit. They're so widely known because of what there deaths brought to rap.

Jay Z, 50 cent... they all just mainstream. Thats all. Mainstream rap is just pop without da chains. lol. Most da people that listen to dat shit are teenyboppers who grew out of nsync and werent sure were to go from there.

aight abut the pac bein hipocritical issue is every rapper not hipocritical hes just tryin to make songs about different topics and he is just tryin to make songs that appeal to everyone thats like sayin that u will always rap about one topic and thats bullshit and he is a great lyricist, not the best of all time cuz all time hasnt ended yet so there is no best of all time.

nah.. pac was a politically conscience inner-city individual, talented enough to place his thoughts, in a variety of bars and hooks. he spoke of elevation of the poverty stricken, ghetto youths. From guns and hennesy, to changing their views of Life, beyond the glitz and glamour of the "hood", in their eyes.
As in money, cars and hoes, to having a say in today's political endeavors. He stood for the poor people, who are stereo-typed, every single day. His claims were, just because we do criminal activities... and live poor.. doesn't mean, we should be outcasted, out of society. We have a say, in the world, and we should be heard. Most commit crime, because they have no choice.

(hope that came out right... damn liquor.lol.)


now for biggie.

He stood for the people. came out of shit.. and made a life for himself. biggie was hip hop... think about it... he had metas and multis.. and didn't even graduate high school. his flow was immaculate... you can say whatever.. but he did his shit proper.
he was one of the greatest... just listen to his lyrics.... he was one of the dopest. even M&M gave him his props... when they were rhyming together.



.........................


conclusion... they repped hip hop heavenly... and to say.. they were not even great.. is just saying you're not hip hop. we give them their props for a reason...





(sorry for the term paper)

thanks for the intelligent answers on the 50 cent question (no sarcasm). Well, even tho those things might be tru, he sure sells well.... oh well, different ppl have different tastes

GB put that into words that can not be beat

Put'Chyour Left Leg In And Shake It All About
Put'Chyour Right Leg In And...Yada Yada Yada

Do The Hokie Pokie Like The Rest Of Everyone Else
Now Lets Shoot Ourselves Cuz They Do On T.V.

And Thats What Its All About...Oh Sexy

^^LMAO....
anyways....i could of sworn i asked people to not come in here and bitch...oh well.....i'm not TELLING people wat to like and wat to dislike...i'm was just asking opinions...and if u actually READ wat i said, i admitted to them being the best RAPPERS...in the most strict use of the word...to say they are the best in HipHop is crazy...Rap is not HipHop...rap is the pop version of HipHop...and yes they were the best ( i dont mean that in a negative way)....
As far as who i think the best is.....i dont think there can be a best...waaaay too many styles and approaches...HipHop is about creativity....so i dont think you can single out just one person...
Thanx for the replies tho...good and bad...

^ now i know .. you don't know anything.


cause you're not hip hop.


prolly the next thing .. this kid is going to say.... run dmc, the get fresh crew.. schooly d...we're not hip hop... they were rap.. and rap is the pop version of hip hop.

ok shorty.whatever man.

well no shit i'm not hiphop...lol...its a lil bigger then me....i'm guessing one of the rappers i was talking about was one of your favorites or something? or maybe your just taking me way to serious.....but if u can sit there and tell me that rap and hiphop are the same thing then, with all due respect, i dont know how u became a mod...once again, i'm not trying to start shit...i'm only sharing a damn opinion...people dont know how to take shit lightly on here......
LP

oh yea...and those groups u mentioned were Hiphop...because back then, there was no real distinction between rap and hiphop.....everything was just everything...then things changed...suddenly killing cats in your rhymes became the thing to do...eh, oh well....i kinda like it this way anyways...the people i listen to dont get played out......but regardless, dont tell me i dont know wat i'm talking about when i'm giving an opinion man....
LP

No, I am making a generalization for the number of people that call Pac the best on the Internet........

How many of them are just jumping on the bandwagon?

They speak on these boards as though they are just coming out of 8th Grade........



I listen to Pac. I like Pac. I just say that it is mostly 14 year old bandwagon riders that are claiming him to be the best.

no... i'm hip hop.. i live it breathe it.. eat it.. digest it.. and shit it...
hip hop is my life. and without it ... i wouldn't be me.

and no you disrespected two of the greatest men to do it.... (they're not my favorites by the way)





lmao... oh and when you start talking about hip hop/rap... you're talking to me and the masses... that been listening and participating in this culture.. since they were elementary schoolers.
before you could even make a dollar out of a track.(so yes it's that serious.)

rap is an element of hip hop... and without it.. we don't have hip hop.


and anyone can mod. skill level or knowledge of hip hop.. doesn't qualify your modship homie.


and if you must know of vet status... i've been rhyming orally for 10 yrs homie. listening to hip hop since '84. (before it was even called hip hop.. when our forefathers called it just RAP{but you know that already})..



(oh sorry for the term paper.. .)

didn't mean to be blunt in my postings...

i feel what your saying to a certain extent... killing became the thing to do... about like at 97....

but that's hardcore... and it's still hip hop...

and i ain't talking bout 50 cent or bonecrusher... or whoever is on now.. MOP, Brand Nubians, Smif n Wessun, Black moon... they were hardcore as hell.. so you're telling me they weren't hip hop?



matter of fact.. before you even answer that question...

when i say i'm not hiphop i ment that more literally then u did...lol....yes i live it....and if u read wat i said...u would see that i said back when Run DMC was around everything was everything...regardless of the name...and when i say rap is different from hiphop i dont mean the actual words...i mean wat is generally thought of as rap...meaning the 50 Cents, the Nellys, Jay Zs....those arent Hiphop...anyone who cant write their own rhymes, or cant manage to do something that someone before them hasnt already done...is NOT Hiphop....anyone who does wat they do for the MONEY and not the music is NOT hiphop.....that is wat Pac and Biggie turned into.....that is why they cant be considered the best in Hiphop...maybe commercially the best? sure i can go for that...but hiphop encompasses way too many styles and variations for two men to be considered THE best..........and arguing on the internet isnt retarded....beefin on the internet is retarded.....
LP

recca your being shut down bigtime

sayin tupac and biggie are better than todays emcees or are worse than todays emcees is pointless and immature. theyre legends, not because they died, but because they really opened the door for rap with messages that anyone can relate to. you cant say they arent the best or they are the best. it makes as much sense relating pac and biggie to anything as this thread does.

it sounded right in my head.

to dezyir when did ja beat up 50 cent?wasnt it chris black that stabbed him and ja was trying 2 beat him up wid a crutch and ended up hitting his own peeps. and the other time i think ja beat him but 50 robbed his chain.

who cares...

ok this girl/guy is REALLY slow on the uptake here.

RAP IS AN ELEMENT OF HIPHOP.

understand? you want me to write that in a bigger font for you? regardless of how the medium is used, for commercial success or whatever, it is still part of hip-hop. if you understood hip-hop you would understand that.

now stop dressing up your ignorance as a legitimate opinion and someone close this thread plz.

u took the words out of my mouth

Well they shouldnt be the best now. Your comparin Rappers who shaped the genre a few years back. Emcees have had time to elevate beyond them. But if they were alive today I think they would still be on top. But they are the best IMO because back then there was no competition. And now their songs show a kind of elevated skill that most rappers still dont have.

Truthfully, I think Tupac and Biggie play the role of Hip-Hop martyrs. Use a modern-day reference: religious martyrs. . The names of the "martyrs" who organized and initiated the terroristic attacks on America were well-known before September of 2001. But now, they are revered as the utmost heroic people in the world of Islam. . Doesn't that metaphor corrolate with the Biggie and Tupac story?

As far as naming a consensus "greatest of all time," I am always surprised at the levels people will go to in these threads to get their points across. . When people like G. and Recca can argue these issues point-for-point, it's obvious that they "live hip-hop," as G. Buttersworth so delicately put it.

I am not well-learned in the underground aspect of hip-hop, to tell you the truth. . But from what I've heard, I like BlackStar more than anybody else in the industry.

how could u compare 3 rappers to the terrorists... that the biggest bullshit I ever heard. And its the most ignorant shit to say that they're the most revered and they are heroic in the Islamic Community. You are obviously uneducated and don't pay attention to current events. The terroist are a digrace to the Islamic community and religion. Don't be fooled by the liberal media's portrayal of 3rd world countries. The media in this country is the most disgraceful most ignorant shit I've ever seen. Your comment is a prime example of why.

Is that right? You're telling me that the "terrorists" are not worshipped by Islamic fundamentalists in the "third world" countries that you love to heroically rescue from having their names troddened in the mud that is RapBattles.com?

You are so concerned with spitting in the face of the powerful giant that is the United States, that you overemphasize its pull on the world's media. . Sure American media is a disgrace, but so is the media in every country around the world. "Media" has taken on a new definition: entertainment. Solely entertainment. I agree that the media sways a lot of uneducated people in our country, but to call me one due to my opinions is uneducated at the least. .

We could go on and on with this topic, for it is certainly one of the most controversial to discuss. . Your opinion's respected, but I don't necessarily agree wholeheartedly with it.

wut the fuck are you talkin about? Religious fundementalists are a burden on the islamic society. They are not the majority. They just rule over the majority with U.S. military issued weapons! There is no contraversial opinions here. There is only the truth and whether one chooses to believe it. We have the same crazy nuts in America as they have in Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. Theres only one difference that makes this country flurish... the nuts don't have control of the guns! And over in the Middle East, the U.S. gave the terroists their arsenol. You honestly think the people like to be oppressed and beheaded and raped and murdered? You think they like starving!? You think they like living in a war zone and having no freedom? FUCK NO!!! So yes, I WILL defend those people. They are an entire region of peoples who are oppressed and poor. And your discriminating comments about them are as ugly as those scary bitches in your sig. lol

And all media is not currupt and liberal in other countries. That is infact another thing that sets the U.S. apart from the rest of the world... but in a very bad way. And the media is not entertainment. It is a very powerful tool that is constantly used for manipulating people into fear and hate. Here's a very good example...

In the past 3 years the murder rate has dropped in this country by 60%... but the murder coverage by the media has risen by 600%... yes thats 6 hundred! this is how they pump fear into our lives. Every fuckin week theres somethin on the news about something that's suddenly dangerous or bad for you. It wasn't before but now it is. They show the break ins and the robberies and all that other bullshit. They make you afraid to walk down the street. So wut do you do? You do by more locks and more guns. You buy expensive alarm systems.

I'm not sayin that i think youre an asshole or anything but you just dont know what your saying. Here, if you really care about learnin a thing or 2, go watch bowling for columbine. Go rent it or download it. Its an excellent movie and its very informative about this type of discussion.

I doubt I'll ever agree. . I'll check out the movie, though. You should check a book called The Cell. . It isn't based so much on the topic we are discussing, but it chronicles religious fundamentalism avidly.

One note, I do not understand how you can say the media is not corrupt in every country. . The media will provide entertainment (at any cost) everywhere, and whose side the masses believe is based on their allegiance to a certain country (and their respective media): nationalism.

I know because I've been to other countries and watched their news. When I say media, I'm talking about the news medias coverage on current events and the news itself. There's really nothing to agree with. You just have to see it for yourself to believe it. BTW, I've read that book. It is bias at best. It also does point out our Countries incompetency toward terrorism and diplomacy. That book made me feel worse for the middle eastern civilizations than I did before. And this book revolves around the history of terrorism from 1990 to 2001. It doesn't accuse whole nations of people of being evil. The only reason you can't see what I'm saying is that self analysis is a difficult concept for people to grasp. Any thing you have uncovered to support your prejudice is called a "self fulfilling prophecy." Trust me when I say that your views are a byproduct of this countries liberal media.

rap is an element of hip hop..

break, rap, DJ, graf

it's like a chant.

but i agree that biggie and pac were over rated.. don't get me wrong, both MC's were good in their own way,

Pac could tell a story
Biggie could flip a line in so many ways

Pac could convey emotion amazingly
Biggie could hit you with a decent punchline here and there

but there will never be a G.O.A.T, and it's only 14 year old white groupies with afro wigs who think that there is one.

^^werd

I've been to ONE other country and was perplexed by the news there, to say the least. . I'm only sixteen and not well-traveled, so I imagine you are way more educated than me in this field. The country I visited was Mexico; Mexico City, in fact. . I went on a trip with Spanish students from my school, most of which are accustomed to the nationalistic news we hear daily. I live in a wealthy, suburban area where close-minded people are about as common as Eminem fans. . The people I went with (with the exception of one of the teachers, an extremely well-traveled man) would've been a burden to our group and country as a whole had their views been expressed in a public forum.

Anyway, I went in February, right around the time that the anti-war sentiment had started to really heat up. There were rallies and mini-riots in the States as well as abroad. I brought home a Mexican newspaper as a way to remember this experience. Although it was in Spanish, I translated what I could and it was enlightening at the least. .

Perhaps I did misphrase my original post comparing rappers to Islamic martyrs. I could (should) have said that the martryrs are heroes to the followers of their religious BELIEFS. Not Islam, itself, but the interpretations that the martyrs extract from their holy book.

On the lines of media, each company or station that provides news for their people caters to their country's wishes. Of course the media in America is biased; it's freedom is monitored by the government. . But the same thing goes for all countries. In this scenario, whether the country at hand is third-world or westernly civilized, the media is held in check by the government. The injustice and bias from the government, however, is the violation of our own Constitution which grants TOTAL freedom of speech.

I'll be sure to pick up the movie, but I was wondering whether it was mainstream (could I find it @ BlockBuster or any chain). I'm also interested in what countries you have visited which helped in the formulation your ideas. Piece.