reason 2.5 and sonar are actually two complete programs... check 'em out for yaself online or you can stop into guitar centre when ya got the chance... they usually have them on display and will let you sample the program on a comp in the store... this dude made one of the hottest tracks i ever heard in like 10 minutes! the shyt's crazy... by the way... i'm a real studio head and that's how i know about the audio programs... they're used by real producers