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Originally Posted by Terumoto
In a previous post I said that when we try to order the chaos, it results in a sort of ordered chaos, which is different to our original goal of a completely ordered existence thus rendering it a failure.
Dude forget all that shit. Look at dust. Its chaotic, if you grabbed a handful of dust and opened your hand, there is absolutely no system or mathematical formula that could accurately predict where the dust is going to go and what its going to do. What it does is random.
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It is ordered in the way that if a force is applied to the dust particle, it will result in a reletive level of propulsion that will carry the particle to a predetermined location according to all level of events which occur during the course of the particles travel.
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Originally Posted by Terumoto
Are you telling me that its NOT random for those authors and illustrators to make their book that exact color and size, and for that exact collection of books to be in your library? Why that exact copy of the book? Why that book instead of a different one? That author/title description of order you gave looks to me like man desperately trying to create order in chaos, through the use of essentially meaningless symbols, names, etc that were created through a random process in history. If thats the kind of superficial "order" you are arguing for and clinging to, then you need to open your eyes for a second.
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Colors and sizes of books are usually decided by human decisions based on general asthetics and themes of the book. A library is a business that takes in all mannor of books for general use by the public. The reason it has certain books is because these are the books available to them for purchase from the companies they can buy from. The companies they can buy from depend on what books the suppliers have available. Which depends on whats in print, which depends on.........
You get the picture. Thats the 'why' that your asking about. Its not random at all.
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Originally Posted by terumoto
A 3D graph of the universe plotting the points where particles gather to form you? Another of man's attempts at order. What is a graph? Is there a single graph in existence in the universe? Think for a second... There is no such thing as a graph. There might be a line on a page, some marks on an axis, some formations of ink that make up the title of the graph... But they arent really a "graph". If you say graph, its a sound. If you write graph, its a color. If you think graph, its a false conception. So where is the graph?
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Ahahahhaaha...
Well there you go.. Youve just proved your own argument wrong. Why does a graph exist? Because humans developed a system of measurement which resulted in us defeating chaos.
We DO have a system of measurement. Therefore your arguments are all antiquated to a point before we first invented a sollution to the problems your babling on about.
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Originally Posted by terumoto
Why would you be in a wall? How could you get in there unless you cut a hole or it was built up around you. Shit like that just doesnt happen. People dont randomly pop into walls. If you're going to use the laws of physics in your argument, then don't ignore them. -_-. You still haven't told me what you're doing right there right now and why you're there.
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Another example of order in your own post.. Why cant I go through a wall? Because there is order and logically my condensed particles cant fit through another set of condensed particles.
The laws of physics I'm using because a large part of what makes them work, is the fact that the universe DOES have order.
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Originally Posted by terumoto
Like you said, if you traced back the reasons through cause and effect you would end up going on forever. So... What? Does that mean that there is actually NO reason for you to be there? No reason can be traced? And ironically something like that coincides with mathematical law. If you are in a room and you halve the room, then halve that half, then halve that halfed half, and you keep on halving... You'll never ever reach the wall. You can't deny that something happening for no reason is random and chaotic. And here we have a man-made system of order, based on the natural chaos of the world... = Ordered chaos, a failed attempt at total order.
Cause and effect can't explain why. All it can do is give a shallow "reason" for something.
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If you trace back every single string of cause and effect, you will always get to the moment of the big bang. And thats the part science is still working on. Just because we as humans have yet to discover what happened on the leadup to the big bang doesent mean nothing actually happened. It logically cant have been random, and my most probable explenation for this is ofcourse god.
If you want to bring up the old greek paradox of infinite halving, then welcome to quantum physics. Which is the study of infinitly small.. And you have an entire field of human research attempting to answer these questions with logical explenations and shit people call GUTs.......(grand unified theorys)
Wait and see what we got in store for the next 100 years.