Originally Posted by Terumoto

Tito: You're already enlightened, you can't be getting closer to it.

Nos: Man, forget all of your lame excuses for order and have a look around for a second. You need not look further than where you are now to experience what im saying.

I'll use me as an example.

Right now I'm inside a room. A room is an attempt at ordering space, and sure, now im kind of seperated from things outside of the room, but not really. Air is getting in, light is getting in, things are getting out. Even me, I come in and out of this room. If I look at the walls, there are cracks from movement of the foundation, marks on the wall from knives and where ive killed bugs, chips off the window sill from where I was trying to open a beer and didnt have a bottle opener.

Stupidly a week or so ago I cleaned this place up. Everything was ordered, all my shit was put away neatly, my desk was arranged to perfection. I cleaned all the crumbs and shit from food, put on a new bed sheet, wiped up all the dust. And still after doing that there was chaos everywhere. The carpet is completely chaotic, there is no order in it except the straight lines of the wall, which you would see arent actually straight if you ripped up the carpet and looked at the edge. There was still marks on the wall, the room was still in some random location somewhere in the universe with millions of random particles floating around in the air.

And after I cleaned it, it got chaotic again just from me living here, and I didnt even realize it. Now theres paper lying everywhere, socks and clothes on the floor, shit all over my desk, pens, lip balm, plastic bags, dust, random crap everywhere, the bed sheet is all crinkled and screwed up.

Order is an illusion that we humans create. Physical laws don't mean chaos isnt the natural state of the universe. Why would they? Those "laws" are like someone looking at a river with a stick floating down it, and saying "Yeah, that stick is moving. If you throw a stick into a river, it will always move. This is the law of hydroscopic objective movement." Its like, whoa, thanks buddy. All youve done is state the obvious.

Do you think an apple falling from a tree judges itself as a victim of the laws of physics? Of course not. Do you think birds all have immense knowledge of aerodynamics and magnetic fields? No way... They just do whatever they feel like doing.

What about WHY? Why does gravity exist? Nobody knows the reason for any of these things, but we know the exact mathematical formula for calculating the force behind gravity's pull. Is that going to stop you from coming back down when you jump up?

Anyway im kind of going off on a tangent. What im trying to say is wherever you find any kind of "order" there is also chaos, and chaos is the nature of the universe. Thats not even a bad thing, you just perceive it as bad.

If you can come up with just ONE example of order that has no chaos, then i'll believe that order is the nature of the universe.