A good poem helps to change the shape and significance of the universe,
helps to extend everyone's knowledge of himself and the world around him.”
-Dylan Thomas

When I think of this philosopher's remarks about poetry, something like a treatise on aesthetics comes to mind. At a minimum,I expect a rigorous examination of the characteristics that define “poetry”,the differences between kinds of poetry (epic, tragic, lyric, comic, and so forth). The senses in which poetry is and is not bound to representation, imitation, expression ,all possible connotations of the classical Greek word “mimesis” , as well as fiction. These complicated terms themselves require careful definition. Equally penetrating and systematic remarks about the small differences between poetry and other art forms, especially rap music, would be in order, as would reflection on the relation between orally delivered poetry , and poetry communicated through the written word.

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I dont disagree with you,but rap is a form of poetry.There is no doubting it.

Comparing poetry to rap is like comparing the hi-ten mitsurugi style of swordsmanship with the goten karusami style of swordsmanship. They can appear similar, but have very different subtleties and roots.

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Thats a a good example,but I strongly feel to deliver rap music in its original form,you need a poetic stance.
Im not talking about what you may call rap music (50 cent,g unit and all that generic bullshit) Im meaning real rap music,hip hops rap music.
It is all pulled from a poetic form,we are rappers here to tell our story in a respectfull form.

Rap when broken down to its original format,will and allways be MY form of poetry. I see my self as a philosphical poet who is about to clash with what you might call comprehensive world views,it seems what are matters and of grave importance to me are ethics, politics, metaphysics, theology, and epistemology are all expressed in my music,which is reached from a poetic form,but translated thru rap music.

So I guess, it comes back to one personal veiw on what they see there OWN music as.
I am a poet, my raps to me are poetry. Which nostradamus so blatently tried to tell me I am not

Well I guess you can take the element and form your take on it. Rap, to you, could indeed be a form of poetry.

Its a bit of a generalisation to say rap is poetry. Those artists you mentioned dont have anything to do with rap in my eyes. Its just pop music. Even underground artists might not be poetic. But some may be, and some may see rap as poetry.

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yeh I feel that bro. Im mainly trying to stress the importance of ones personal view. Your dopium partner in crime blatently tried to make me think my veiw is wrong,and what ever I think isnt correct.

So therefore I thought I should once and for all express how deep my mind acctually runs and how I feel my point of veiw is correct. I am willing to listen and take others into account, I am not willing to be told how wrong I am by some guy who claims to be the second coming of nostradamus.No hate nos,but you gotta learn to chill,cause bro Your not allways right.

Well when he rocks up im sure he'll have something to say. You should probably at least listen and open up to what hes trying to put across.

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Ysdat; I take my rap very seriously.. I dont slip up when I'm giving opinions and anything I have said I would stand by 100%..

Rap is not poetry. It would be clear enough to most people when OMB made his point about when rap first started, the dudes who made it were more into reggae and rap was what they used to host parties. You think Kool Herc was speaking emotional poetry when he introduced well known members of the crowd at his partys? That my friend is the birth of rap itself.

Furthermore, do you feel NWA was being all deep and poetical when they wrote the lyrics to famous RAP songs like "FUCK THE POLICE" Or for a more recent reference, when Eminem was dosed up on MDMA caps writing stuff like "I'm cancerous, so when I diss, you wouldnt wanna answer this if you responded back with a battle rap you wrote for canibus".. Was fucking poetry on his mind brutha?

I'm trying my hardest not to sound condescending as you obviously have it in your head that I'm working against you, not to mention telling me to chill out after immediatly taking up an overly defencive stance in the other thread, creating a new thread based on the small argument that I forgot even happened; and making comments like this one:

Which was mildly humorous and ironic to me considering that statement itself is basically, 100% wrong...

Rap is a form of music, as much as you hate it; 50 Cent & G-unit are successful rappers, you said it best yourself that everyone has their own opinions.. However saying rap is poetry is attempting to steriotype what 'real' rap is considering how many raps simply have no relation to poetry even in the most abstract analysis. When you look at rap on an industry level; the artists that sell, are always the ones that speak a clear message using language people can understand, I have been given this advice by plenty of knowledgable people when talking about hip hop. Poetry on the other hand, is words describing feelings, emotions and thoughts that can serve as a reference to certain feelings, emotions and thoughts that the reader has experienced, that is why a poem one person will love, can be complete garbage to another (like I said in the previous thread, one mans trash is another mans treasure). Poetry when done correctly, is not something that is designed to be implemented into rap or music for that matter. Sure you can write a poem and then make a track with the same meaning. But you wouldnt straight up use the same wording as in a poem simply because poems have a different set up and approach to rap as a form of music.

And for anyone who says "hey I'd use my poetry in rap songs" Your either:
A - Never going to hold a successful rap career.
B - Not writing proper poetry.

Ysdat, I invite you to post one of your verses that you feel is very poetical and would make a killer rap song at the same time... I'm sure its possable, but straight up saying rap is poetry is very ignorant to every other style of lyricism that rap implements to build up this form of music.

I dont try to come off as a know it all.. But I'm definatly not a bumbling fool that pretends to be smarter than he is. And for future reference, here is the most major (among other) contradictions you made while arguing here.


Might I also make note of my paragraph on kool herc and the origions of rap in this post here aswell, funny how raps 'origional form' differs from what it is in reality inside your head.

I'm done now. You would have to be hell bent in revenge mode if you further this argument and attempt to be-little my opinions in order to disagree with anything I have said. I'm a philosopher myself Ysdat; opinions and the study of the way things work are my game... And you wont beat me at my own game, I dont talk unless I know exactly what I'm saying.

that's not true...I've written a poem and re-worked it into a song and gotten great feedback from it...rap and poetry are NOT one in the same, but some people can make them stand side-by-side together, it's MY belief that the peson to do this best was Tupac...some people refer to him as a "thug poet" and I believe that's true...to me, poetry is something that conveys images through words and causes you to "feel" through those words whether stated aloud or in written expression...

like I said, the 2 are not the same, but they CAN coincide...a person can have a poetic rap style...50Cent and other rappers as himself rap in a more "straight forward" approach but others that use more metaphors and imagery rather than being boastful, seem (to me) to be poetic with their wording...an example of this would be someone like Talib Kweli...

and it's not about underground or mainstream, it just so happens to be that the mainstream is less opposed to the straight forward approach because it sells better and people that don't listen to rap will understand it better than a person that truely appreciates the actual wording of a Talib Kweli, rather than the hard beats a 50Cent rap on with a braggadocious swagger...

it's all about preference, but like I said, the 2 can be related...

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Pac still wrote poetry, then wrote rap tracks with the same meanings to suit what he was talking about in his poetry. Your right, it can be done to good effect, I was probably a bit harsh on that front.. But rap is still not poetry..

And there are a lot more styles than just commercial 50 cent music and deep poetrical meaning songs..... When I say rapping with straight up language.. I actually didnt have 50 cent on my mind... heh.. I actually had eminem, dre, eazy e, tupac, Louis Logic and rappers of that calibur..

But word...

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Influenced me?

How old are you btw?