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Old 09-08-06, 03:58 AM   #11
Terumoto
I have a lot to learn...
 
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Posts: 9,740
From: Life.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostradamus
For what I've been taught it is? Where are you getting that bull from..

If I knock over the pen that is sitting upright on my desk, there will be a cause, which will ultimatly result in an effect where the pen will fall. Even a 5 year old child could understand that. Its not something you need to be taught, its just a natural law of physics observable by anybody on planet earth no matter where or how intelligent they are.

Cause and effect = order.

Shit, even the way you are typing your message each time you reply is forumating an ordered approach towards getting your point across.

Chaos, in the context your using it in, doesent even exist.

Nothing in this universe is truely random.

Its not that I dont see your argument for what it is, it has nothing to do with my ability to percieve the world for what it is.. It has to do with you being incorrect, but unwilling to admit it....


OK, im going to try something similar to that right now and knock a pen off the table as an experiment.

Alright, ive done it a number of times now. You look at that and say "Finger moved towards pen, came into contact with it. Contact, kinetic energy and gravity caused the pen to move, and fall off the table."

I look at it and see an amazing, intriguing mystery that can never be solved and is overloading my brain. A mystery that I could never explain in words. Here are some aspects:

- Why am I right here, right now, in this time period, talking to you on a machine and pushing a pen off a table anyway?

- Why, no matter how hard I try to push the pen in the same place each time from the same position, does it fall differently and land differently each time?

- Why, no matter if it was done in perfectly controlled circumstances, will the pen never ever ever ever fall in the same way and land in the same position? Even in a completely controlled environment (which I of course dont have) it will never land in exactly the same position.

- What is the pen made of?

- What is "pen"?

- Why has this particular pen, out of every single identical one of its kind, ended up next to me so I can perform this experiment?

- Why is there carpet for the pen to land on?

- Why is there cement under the carpet?

- Why were those exact rocks and fibres used in manufacturing this carpet and cement?

- Why am I at this position, why arent I slightly to the left, or at the other side of the room?

- Why did I put my desk here?

- Why are all of the fibres of the carpet positioned in that exact way?

- What would be happening if I didnt know you?

- What was the trigger a million years ago that caused me, the pen, etc to be here?

- What was the trigger of that trigger?

- What was the trigger of that trigger?

- What triggered the creation of the word trigger?

- Why have I used that pen the exact number of times so that the ink in it is where it is?

- Why did it hit my computer on the way down sometimes, and not other times, even if it was in pretty much the same position?

- Why were you born? Why are you you? Why would you be arguing with me right now?

- Why am I asking these questions? Surely all of this is trivial, yet im still asking these questions.

- How is it that this language was created in such a way that something else isnt the word for pen?

- Why out of all the possibilities did I choose to live in this place?

- Why does the pen have a yellow section?

- Why does the pen have a blue light in it?

- What is the origin of "blue"?

- Why is the pen partly metallic?

- Why is my table made of wood?

- What tree is my table?

- What tree created the seed that created the tree that is my table?

- What tree's seed created that seed?

- What is the origin of trees?

- What caused my brain to think of these things about pens and trees?

- What guy built the machine that built my pen?

- Why was it him?

- What person was responsible for desiging my desk?

- What person is that persons father?

- What person was the first person in that persons line of origin?

- Why is the weather like it is at this exact time I am dropping the pen?

- Why is there a bottle of water near where the pen landed?

- Which water of all the water in the world is inside that bottle, and why is that so?

- Why is that bottle filled to the exact point it is filled to, why didnt I drink slightly more or slightly less?

- Why can some of these questions be answered, while others can't?

- Why did I think of these questions to write down, out of all the questions in my head?

- Why did I get home at 2:20pm today just in time to start talking to you and eventually end up pushing a pen off a table?

- Did I really get home at 2:20pm, or was my phone wrong?

- Does 2:20pm exist?

- Why did you just say to me on msn you want me to be done soon, which is causing me to end this senseless question asking at this question?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Obviously most of those questions, could in theory, be answered. But now, come to think of it, I didnt explain myself well. I saw the pen drop. Why? You can give it order, you can attribute it to cause and effect and go back to the beginning of time, but WHY? Not even why, how? Not even how, it just is. My mind is chaotic, overloaded with mystery, yet at complete peace in pushing this pen off the table. It just happened, I find solace in seeing the pen unexplainably move in the air and unexplainably land in a position on the floor.

Cause: A push.
Effect: Pen falls off table, lands on floor.

Perfectly right. Yet just a simple experiment like this causes an infinity of thought and mystery, let alone every slight movement in the world. You ever watch tall grass blow in the wind? It goes nuts. It goes this way, that way, any way. Cause? Wind. Effect? Grass moves. But that grass is eternal, in that it started (in whatever way) aeons ago, and a single blade of grass will leave its mark on the universe forever, in whatever way.

Call it order, call it chaos, call it whatever you want. Doesnt bother me.
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