^^word especially when you use fresh ideas...people thinks it forced..there is a new battle script you have to adapt to it...if you cant shit man you aint gonna make it...but you can come fresh its juss ten times harder...i used to write verses in 20 minutes and be fresh as hell..but now its impossible...unless u know ur opponent and shit flies to ur head with personals but even those are played....battling is harder now thats why theres less ''Great'' Battlers

I think anything can be dope really. Hell, if I laughed at a cumline I'd call it dope even though that concept is hella played. But as has already been said, the way its used is more integral nowadays than the concept.

Which leads me on to say that the concept shouldn't be considered as important as the flip of it. Cos everyones saying most concepts are mad played, well why don't we revert the emphasis on to the wording of the concept, as opposed to the concept itself? It could get text fresh again, as it's something that hasn't been done and will bring freshness back to battling in a way.

Yeah, but to go along with your example of a cum line. . all the flips have been done on it. How are going to make that an original concept? Everybody has seen the wording before. I don't think that the concept itself is what people base their opinion on the punch on; it's just a lot of concepts have been worded differently enough to where your "flip" on it may have been similarly used by somebody else already.

Yep, its the same with "sick" lines or "michael jackson" lines. .

. .you'd be hard to find someone who can bring a fresh play on those concepts.

What, those lines are played?!

Awwwwwwwww shit , brb, I gotta go rewrite a verse.

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yeah, i agree for the most part about how hard it is to write fresh, but i don't exactly agree about flipping concepts to make them effective, maybe unknowingly, and i'm not accusing anyone, but if people go around and find lines and flip them then that's basically just biting the concept.

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DOHpe.

classick . johnhensley . mets . shakezula . deon . properhops . armz . username

Yeah, I agree with that. But, what I meant about flipping a decent concept to make it nice... I meant coming up with the concept in your head and flipping it, despite the fact that you know it has probably been used before.

Its like lines where you say one thing, and then flip it around to use it as a means of saying you are going to hurt someone or something. Mimesis is one who uses them kind of punches well.

Example:

I'm the narrator to your death, and dude your life is gone..
But I won't tell you one story. . I'll just push you off of one.

and...

This dude is dope, but his bitch ass will still feel the slaughter,
Cuz he was only a legend amongst his peers. .
. .until I dropped him in the water.


Same idea, you use one thing and then turn it around on a person. The basic concept is always the same, but there is so many ways you can flip it.

word to hens.

and you can come fresh. personals are a fresh way of writing, theres still plenty of wordplay out there that hasnt been used. current events, sports, movies, TV ..shit is out there. you just gotta be smart enough to use it. i do agree that the dudes that just started in the last 2 years are basically screwed cause MOST the shit has been used. and because they werent there when new shit was everywhere. but nowadays you just gotta be that much smarter. imagine how easy it was to write pounches in 01-02, everything was there. lol. be creative and you can come fresh.

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ya, i pretty much agree with that. and alot of people think a concept is just one word or phrase to base an entire line on, that's when people get in trouble with freshness, they need to bring more creativity to their lines not just their concepts. how to word them, phrasing, set ups, lots of shit plays into having a good verse.

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DOHpe.

classick . johnhensley . mets . shakezula . deon . properhops . armz . username

right, that's a good example because i don't consider the word choice really that similar. myself personally, i try to go into each battle with the mindset that i'm going to come up with lines that are original, if i have any doubt that a concept is played i try not to use it. but that's a good example.

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DOHpe.

classick . johnhensley . mets . shakezula . deon . properhops . armz . username

I'm not very good at wording, can ya'll give me advice please lol.

I would try and give advice, but honestly... I don't think I should.

My wording can be dope at times, but then other times it can be complete ass.

i think personally wording is the most important part, anyone can have a dope ideas but if you can't make it sound right then it doesn't work. basically when i try to word a line, i just see if it sounds natural, almost like a statement, i don't have it sound choppy or pause alot, unless it adds to the effect of the punch. some people have different auras they want in their verses, cocky, fast, brash, whatever. just think how you'd say the line in real life then write it down.

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DOHpe.

classick . johnhensley . mets . shakezula . deon . properhops . armz . username

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind. Especially the last part.

^ Nicely put.