Versatility. On average, neither side has it like they should. I'll break this down.

Big Pun, Jay-Z, Royce Da 5'9" even. They've all blazed a club track or 4. The "real hip hop" comes into play in how they deliver it. Pun in particular could take that subject matter, and not only murder it wit his flow, he had clever shit goin on throughout (100% w/Tony Sunshine) lyrics. Cleverness. Somethin Pun, Jigga and a few other artists deliver. Snoop.... Occasionally says somethin clever, but its usually tha same cliched shit he's been sayin since Death Row fell off. Pimpin, smokin, 64's, fine. If Battlecat ain't doin ya beats, I don't wanna hear it. Basically, it ain't real hip hop if it was created completely from the "Sell records Fast" formula. U know how it goes. Platinum in the video. Benzes and Bentley's are out now. Escalades and Navigators are in. Pop Cristal and smoke weed. Fuck a lotta ho's, and pimp a few. Tell everybody what u got. Then they wonder why underground rappers speak on it and call it jealousy. Underground rappers concentrate on it cuz thats all the mainstream artist talks about. Not real. No thought put into it. Only a gimmick 4 groupies. The artist might not have even written it. They basically sell a Neptunes or Timbaland beat wit another muh'fuckaz face on it cuz a beat is all they really sellin. The way the 2 sides attack each other really bothers me. Like, how many people in here have said Eminem or Nas sold out? My man Nelly said this best. 2 be Pop means 2 be Popular (duh). Every artist wants this. Why do u want 2 be in the business and not be popular. It borders on the King that marries his daughter 2 the neighbors prince 4 the sake of tradition. She doesn't wanna fuck him, much less does she love him. But because thats what this society believes in, its just gotta be done. So if I blow next week, I lose my Freestyle Fellowship Membership. Not that I changed anything. Just that I relocated from the projects 2 tha burbs. Nas ain't real cuz he's got money and can afford tha big house on the hill that everyone wants? If u make millions of dollars, its not logical, nor is it safe 2 stay in the hood. Stick around Compton wit a sky high bank account so niggaz can rob yo ass. Yeah right. The question is HOW u become popular. Eminem, as far as I can tell ain't changed a damn thing. Or were u all expecting him 2 do what canibus did and release a whole album of battle raps? He had his "gimmick" of pissing people off, fine. I can understand that, cuz thats a personal mission of mine. Piss some people off. I can tell, he kinda likes 2 be the bad guy. Its fun. He's Popular. But he didn't trade any of his talent away 2 get there. And he's truly encompassed every aspect of the game people respect. Realness. Lyrical dexterity. Even a talent 4 storytelling and imagery. And if the Eminem Show wasn't indication enuff that he's starvin 4 respect, u just plain hatin. (Did I just say the H word?) Changing your style 2 go pop is the problem. Sometimes, I think the question could be whether or not some of these artists had anything 2 offer 2 begin with. I hear Cashmoney was a little grimier before they got big. Grimey don't make u real. Baby don't even rap 4real. Ghostwriter on damn near every verse. My thought is "If u can't do this, why are u here?" He oughta do what Suge does (what Diddy shoulda done) and stayed behind the desk handlin biz like he's supposed 2. Gangsta don't make u real. Grimey don't make u real. Battlin don't make u real. Real hip hop is creative. Clever. Versatile. Thought provoking. Fun. Its Nigganometry. It's I Gave You Power. It's So Many Tears. It's What You See is What u Get. It's Girls, Girls, Girls. If u can incorporate any or all of that into your style, u're real. And on that note.....

"/I'll get twisted off a 5th of Sprite and fuck yo image/"
-Venom Tha Tiger Dragon

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
thanks,.that's the shit i was waitin to hear.

Oh ok I get it now. So your "real" hip hop if you have cleverness in your rhymes? Blah, catch my sarcasm to the mouth young kicko. Your post sounded ridiculous.

lol...

i think if ur a hip hop head u should see all forms of hip hop, from mainstream to independent.
Hell, i Love Underground Heads Like Lone cats, FiveDeez Etc.. But i Like Mainstream heads also.

Cormega is Real Hip hop, And So is Juice.. But i Guess Its a Matter of Opinion.

peace

Juice and Cormega being Examples..

i'm glad to see El-P gettin a little shine...he's pretty good, but his production is starting to get a little bland to me...you can only loop different spacey sound effects for so long before it gets old...i loved the cann ox CD but wasn't feelin his as much...but that's not even the point here...the point is will this MTV thing cause El-P to get any type of shine? No, it won't...it may introduce a few new people but 90% of the people i've shown cann ox to have hated it...it's a sound u hafta take the time to get used to and most commercial consumers are not willing to do that...and besides that, it misses a big element that is very needed for commercial success of hip hop...u can not dance to this shit...i don't care what anyone says but to blow up now in hip hop u gotta have some dance appeal to at least some of ur music...

so yeah, glad to see him get that special...but i honestly don't think it's gonna lead to anything special for him...until someone is willing to combine deep concepts with upbeat, dance worthy music, i don't see there being a big cross over from the underground...this can be done...but no one wants to be called a sell out so it's not...

Ona side note 100% of people Ive shown Can OX have loved it...

you are right about having to appeal to the masses...I said this in a post in another thread a few days...I like abstract though...Such as Can Ox, El-P Dose One...that is just me speaking.

But think about it....(this is hypothetical) say nobody that watches MTV ever heard of El-P... Now they see this special and are curious. 75% of those that see the special buy his album or donload his tracks fromt he net. about 40% hate it and will never give him a chance again. 20% like it but not enough to bump it anywhere...maybe they tell htier friends...the remaining 15% buys his album...loves it and tells everyboyd they know..They bump it everywhere and continue this chain.

Do you see what Im saying...theres now way in hel that 100% of the people that saw it hate it...So, through the grapevine El-P reaches the masses that would have nveer known about him. Overall Its good...so It doesnt matter if some dislike him...If even 1 likes him, the chain continues...

word, i feel u...the title of this was underground emcees breaking through though and i don't believe this will lead to El-P becoming a star or being placed in mainstream knowledge...that's what i consider breaking through...this isn't gonna reshape hip hop and put a new star on the map...just gonna give him a little publicity...

I really hate when people try and define "real hip hop" or try to label something "real hip hop" that shits reallllllll gay. Hip hop is hip hop, no real or fake hip hop, just hip hop, people who hate on other people are the 1's saying "oh he not real hip hop" just like KRS's non selling album ass, trying to call himself "real hip hop" and throwing diss's to people just because they sell alot more then he do... that shits GAY!

Theres no such thing as real or fake hip hop, if you like something, bump it, if not, dont listen and dont try to put a label on it just because you dont like it, simple as that. People like KRS one amongst others who seem to hate on commercial rap because they dont sell as much anymore are the people I wont listen to, not because they not good, but because they not spittin shit i can relate to..

So to sum it up, theres no real or fake anything, theres not a single person on this message board or any other one who can label anything real or fake, when they have NO SUCCESS AT ALL in neither underground or commercial, and if im wrong, show me where your names sittin on the billboard top 10 list and prove me wrong. Or any top 10 list that didnt origate on a web page for that matter.

Seems some people think "yay i made top 10 on soundclick, now my opinion matters" or mp3.com, to me thats just showing u can spam, cause theres some garbagggeeeeee ass emcee's on these boards who break top 5 on mp3.com and soundclick. and any of the others...

thats all...