Dust particles on books?

Bro the spreading of dust itself is a systematic phenomenon that has been happening for all recorded history and is a minature part of a larger whole of a natural equilibrium that we live in..

Colors, random sizes? That has nothing to with chaos, that is a human decision that has been made for each seperate book. When were talking books, the most definitive information required to decypher what book we are looking for is the name and the author. Therefore this is where the order of the library system defeats chaos and creates an ordered system based on the books most important information.

My place in the universe is defined by a number of infinitly small particles gathered together and condensed tightly all at a certain point on a 3D point graph, be it a graff consisting of the legth of the entire universe vertically and horizontally or be it a graph of a small area surrounding the earth. Being that I am an organism constructed to be solid matter, my position is ofcourse important to me.. The relevance of the exact point I'm in relating to the universe is that I will not be.........say.....halfway through a wall... Where is the order you ask?

Cause and effect. I am standing here because I run a library, why do I run a library? I like books and want to make a living that way. Why do I like books? I possibly found an interest in learning at a young age which caused me to read books a lot. Why did that happen? Because I may have been brought up in a family that had a lot of interesting books I could read. Why did they have a lot of books? Maybe my family had traveled a lot and good reading material for long trips..................And you could go on forever.

Cause and effect IS order. Just like apexx was saying in his post.....Why does the tree grow as it does? Because a lot of its defining aspects are implanted into the seed itself to create an order that is required by this tree to survive and reproduce.

I AM telling you order is a perfectly logical concept that has been proven over time to work unfailably.

Dont you get it man?

Surly your not gonna come back and keep arguing that there is only chaos now right?

Thatd be embarrasing..............for you.....

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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How long something lives is not the "order". The WAY it lives is the order. The natural patterns is the order which is why i didn't want ot mention plants becaues i know osmeonewould have ran off on someting completely stupid. And being identically the same isn't "order". no two things are ever the same. even twins. hell, even clones! so what' your point? I mean, how do you see chaos in the way leaves grow on a tree? the tree grew that leaf there because it needed to, it didn't "jsut happen". there's a system and an order to it. nothing just "happens". Everything is a factor.

once agian, jsut because you don't understand it doesn't make it chaos.I understand why everything happens. Because it does. nothing and no one ever does anything outside of their nature. Period.

"random" would be opening a book and a fuckin squirel comes popping out. THAT'S random. Waking up one day, and all your teeth are fingers. THAT'S random. the shit you're talking about is the nature of a living thing.

i think your take on life is way too stoic, like you just drift through a fluid mass called time where in your mind nothing you do matters. Even buddhists aren't like that, i don't know what sect of buddhism you claim to adhere to cuz none of your beliefs are found is buddhism.

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Well you guys don't seem like you're gonna get my point anytime soon...

So all im gonna say to you is relax. Sit back, flow, open your eyes, turn of your mind, unfocus, and let the waves of chaos roll over your brain. Think for yourself for once. Surf the waves of chaos, and learn how to redesign your own reality.

Float, drift, design, create your ordered chaos.

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I'm a reasonable man...

If you are able to explain to me why some of the most fundemental laws of physics are wrong..

Then I'll give you my time to respond...

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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If you can tell me where I said any fundamental laws of physics were wrong, then i'll explain why they are.

But yo, ima go out quickly and get a lasagna and some garlic pizza. If you want ill reply properly to your post and apexx's, just say the word.

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If there is no order and only chaos. Then explain to me how you havnt been preaching against fundemental physical laws?

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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to be quite honest with you, it sounds liek you're talking in circles. Add to that i haven't seen you illustrate one instance of randomness yet. as a matter of fact, your arguments seem to be in favor of order.

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In a previous post I said that when we try to order the chaos, it results in a sort of ordered chaos, which is different to our original goal of a completely ordered existence thus rendering it a failure.



Dude forget all that shit. Look at dust. Its chaotic, if you grabbed a handful of dust and opened your hand, there is absolutely no system or mathematical formula that could accurately predict where the dust is going to go and what its going to do. What it does is random.

Are you telling me that its NOT random for those authors and illustrators to make their book that exact color and size, and for that exact collection of books to be in your library? Why that exact copy of the book? Why that book instead of a different one? That author/title description of order you gave looks to me like man desperately trying to create order in chaos, through the use of essentially meaningless symbols, names, etc that were created through a random process in history. If thats the kind of superficial "order" you are arguing for and clinging to, then you need to open your eyes for a second.

A 3D graph of the universe plotting the points where particles gather to form you? Another of man's attempts at order. What is a graph? Is there a single graph in existence in the universe? Think for a second... There is no such thing as a graph. There might be a line on a page, some marks on an axis, some formations of ink that make up the title of the graph... But they arent really a "graph". If you say graph, its a sound. If you write graph, its a color. If you think graph, its a false conception. So where is the graph?

Why would you be in a wall? How could you get in there unless you cut a hole or it was built up around you. Shit like that just doesnt happen. People dont randomly pop into walls. If you're going to use the laws of physics in your argument, then don't ignore them. -_-. You still haven't told me what you're doing right there right now and why you're there.

Like you said, if you traced back the reasons through cause and effect you would end up going on forever. So... What? Does that mean that there is actually NO reason for you to be there? No reason can be traced? And ironically something like that coincides with mathematical law. If you are in a room and you halve the room, then halve that half, then halve that halfed half, and you keep on halving... You'll never ever reach the wall. You can't deny that something happening for no reason is random and chaotic. And here we have a man-made system of order, based on the natural chaos of the world... = Ordered chaos, a failed attempt at total order.

Cause and effect can't explain why. All it can do is give a shallow "reason" for something.

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It is ordered in the way that if a force is applied to the dust particle, it will result in a reletive level of propulsion that will carry the particle to a predetermined location according to all level of events which occur during the course of the particles travel.


Colors and sizes of books are usually decided by human decisions based on general asthetics and themes of the book. A library is a business that takes in all mannor of books for general use by the public. The reason it has certain books is because these are the books available to them for purchase from the companies they can buy from. The companies they can buy from depend on what books the suppliers have available. Which depends on whats in print, which depends on.........

You get the picture. Thats the 'why' that your asking about. Its not random at all.


Ahahahhaaha...

Well there you go.. Youve just proved your own argument wrong. Why does a graph exist? Because humans developed a system of measurement which resulted in us defeating chaos.

We DO have a system of measurement. Therefore your arguments are all antiquated to a point before we first invented a sollution to the problems your babling on about.



Another example of order in your own post.. Why cant I go through a wall? Because there is order and logically my condensed particles cant fit through another set of condensed particles.

The laws of physics I'm using because a large part of what makes them work, is the fact that the universe DOES have order.



If you trace back every single string of cause and effect, you will always get to the moment of the big bang. And thats the part science is still working on. Just because we as humans have yet to discover what happened on the leadup to the big bang doesent mean nothing actually happened. It logically cant have been random, and my most probable explenation for this is ofcourse god.

If you want to bring up the old greek paradox of infinite halving, then welcome to quantum physics. Which is the study of infinitly small.. And you have an entire field of human research attempting to answer these questions with logical explenations and shit people call GUTs.......(grand unified theorys)

Wait and see what we got in store for the next 100 years.

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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couldnt agree more.... the evidence is my Car Accident i narrowly escaped death in today...



the universe by nature is chaotic.... we gotta sorta.... roll wit the punches.... and... be at peace wit everything that comes... cuz we can do nothing but continue living till we die....

these close calls are bringing me ohhhhhh so much closer to Nirvanana

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Full Metal Bronsky Dropin 1st Quarter 08'

Tito: You're already enlightened, you can't be getting closer to it.

Nos: Man, forget all of your lame excuses for order and have a look around for a second. You need not look further than where you are now to experience what im saying.

I'll use me as an example.

Right now I'm inside a room. A room is an attempt at ordering space, and sure, now im kind of seperated from things outside of the room, but not really. Air is getting in, light is getting in, things are getting out. Even me, I come in and out of this room. If I look at the walls, there are cracks from movement of the foundation, marks on the wall from knives and where ive killed bugs, chips off the window sill from where I was trying to open a beer and didnt have a bottle opener.

Stupidly a week or so ago I cleaned this place up. Everything was ordered, all my shit was put away neatly, my desk was arranged to perfection. I cleaned all the crumbs and shit from food, put on a new bed sheet, wiped up all the dust. And still after doing that there was chaos everywhere. The carpet is completely chaotic, there is no order in it except the straight lines of the wall, which you would see arent actually straight if you ripped up the carpet and looked at the edge. There was still marks on the wall, the room was still in some random location somewhere in the universe with millions of random particles floating around in the air.

And after I cleaned it, it got chaotic again just from me living here, and I didnt even realize it. Now theres paper lying everywhere, socks and clothes on the floor, shit all over my desk, pens, lip balm, plastic bags, dust, random crap everywhere, the bed sheet is all crinkled and screwed up.

Order is an illusion that we humans create. Physical laws don't mean chaos isnt the natural state of the universe. Why would they? Those "laws" are like someone looking at a river with a stick floating down it, and saying "Yeah, that stick is moving. If you throw a stick into a river, it will always move. This is the law of hydroscopic objective movement." Its like, whoa, thanks buddy. All youve done is state the obvious.

Do you think an apple falling from a tree judges itself as a victim of the laws of physics? Of course not. Do you think birds all have immense knowledge of aerodynamics and magnetic fields? No way... They just do whatever they feel like doing.

What about WHY? Why does gravity exist? Nobody knows the reason for any of these things, but we know the exact mathematical formula for calculating the force behind gravity's pull. Is that going to stop you from coming back down when you jump up?

Anyway im kind of going off on a tangent. What im trying to say is wherever you find any kind of "order" there is also chaos, and chaos is the nature of the universe. Thats not even a bad thing, you just perceive it as bad.

If you can come up with just ONE example of order that has no chaos, then i'll believe that order is the nature of the universe.

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I understand what your trying to say..

Its just..........wrong..

I mean sorry bro.. But honestly, your perception of what makes order and chaos I'm finding to be reletivly limited to a visual plane and isnt at all taking into consideration that logically order is ultimatly refering to a cause creating an effect. Things dont happen randomly.. In a universe of true chaos, we would have no planets, no stars, no nebulae to create those stars, no galaxies, no gravity, no humans.......And all matter would just be randomly drifting through a big load of empty space.

Infact the biggest logical flaw in your argument is that infact, if the universe WASNT ordered.........We wouldnt be here to observe it..

Imagine if the nature of our earth wasnt ordered?

We might just float off into the sun.......Or out into space with no heat sources.....

What your not realising is that everything we have as a species is almost entirly due to the fact that our universe does have order..

Where is the order in your messy room? Its not random. Its due to the fact that your living there. Why are you living there? You need a roof over your head...Why do you need a roof over your head? You dont want to sleep on the street.......etc etc etc untill you get back to the one simple question, why do you exist? Because there was a big bang, why was there a big bang? ...........According to probability...............God.

THAT is order.

What your saying is baseless....

Fuck your question, you give me one event in the universe that happened compleatly randomly without absolutly ANY cause.... BAR the universe being created itself, because that is beyond our comphrension anyway and does nothing towards proving either of our arguments.

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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What are you doing?! What are you saying?! says:
I wouldnt be able to do that, and I dont need to. Everything has a superficial little reason or cause that we give it, so how could I escape you giving one for whatever I say?
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you couldnt.........and that my friend.....is called order
What are you doing?! What are you saying?! says:
ok, well what about an order without chaos?
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an apple falling from a tree...
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wheres the chaos
What are you doing?! What are you saying?! says:
everywhere... The apples path, the movement of the ground where the apple lands, the color of the apple, the amount of light on it
What are you doing?! What are you saying?! says:
the fact that it fell
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none of that is random
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its all predefined by a previous event
What are you doing?! What are you saying?! says:
which is defined by an event before that, blah blah leading back to the "beginning" of existence, if there even was one
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SO
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thats order..

.
.
.
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That's order, is it? A line of cause and effect that goes back in time forever?

If that's the order that you're talking about then we shouldnt even be arguing. Thats so chaotic, how could you not see the chaos in that? All you've done is take the chaotic nature of the universe, and call it order.

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That IS order man...

The chaos your talking about is all ordered............

Your just not thinking it through properly every time you try and convince me...

Either that or youve already realised your wrong, and you dont want to give in.....

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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