Implicit: So your identity, the person you are is based on the fact that you say ow when you pinch yourself? Do you even say ow or do you just feel pain? Does every person who says ow when pinched have the same identity as you?

PT: I'll reply when I get home.

__________________

Exactly.

Why should you believe anyone else? How do you know what they say is true? The answer is you don't. What people say may seem true, but you don't know. They don't know.

Which is precisely the reason you should give up on believing what people tell you to believe. Don't listen to me, don't listen to anybody, ESPECIALLY other Christians. The only thing you should do is figure things out for yourself, and believe the things that you truly know because you have experienced them.

If you don't see the merit in what I am saying then you're an idiot. I don't even mean that in an offensive way, I would just class you as the type of person I would call an idiot. These are people who are too foolish to learn anything on their own, and only follow what others tell them without ever thinking things through.

__________________

I agree with you completely. I mean some of the things christians around my way do really really offend me. I mean they kicked someone out of the church. Apart of being a christian is showing and giving all the love you can give. Thats what I try to do no matter who someone is. But i'm not perfect so at times I fall back. I mean I just do what my gut tells me to do....if something doesn't feel right then I won't do it. I always go by what Myself tells me. Sometimes I ask questions and what not but I think all I need is a relationship with God to be happy.

__________________

ADD ME LETS MAKE SOMETHING

TheMyspace

I am just worried, I question whether all you really need IS a relationship with God. Do you feel at peace most of the time, or do you still suffer and struggle for things in this world? A relationship with God is something that you already have, nothing you can do can improve or ruin your relationship, it's just there. YOU can't do anything, you are completely helpless. Realize that (I think you may have already) and you have an easy, fun life ahead of you.

__________________

So was your whole point of this thread to frown upon the Christian religion? Or was the question actually the whole point of the thread?

Now I like the fact that you said you shouldn't believe what people TELL you or what they TEACH you. But the part that I disagree with you about is the whole relationship with God.

I speak for myself when I say that YES all I need is a relationship with God and I AM happy. No things aren't always easy but that comes with anything in life. Things will NEVER run smoothly. And that's not what a relationship with God entails for you. Nobody ever said "Have a relationship with God and be free of any problem in the world".

How can you yourself speak of something if you have yet to experience it?


And Yes you can improve relationships. Just like in any other relationship, you must spend time with the person on the opposite end. Wether that is by praying, or reading His Word, or even by meditating upon it. It strengthens the relationship. When we pray we talk to God, when we read the Bible he speaks to us. And that is how we improve our relationship with God.




I don't know if I started to go off topic, but let me know if I did. And I'm no smart wiz guy. I just have some knowledge about what I believe in.

No, the point of this thread was not to frown on Christianity, and I didn't mean to do that. Sorry if I did.

I think the way I was addressing PT was unclear, I was actually asking him personally whether all he needs is a relationship with God.

I must say, I completely disagree with what you said about having a relationship with God. I don't think it's possible to strengthen or weaken the relationship by any means. Do you think God is external from this world? Would such an important thing be so far off from our actual existence? It says in the bible that God is everywhere, God is everything. There is no way that you CAN'T have a relationship with God. The relationship is there whether you like it or not.

If you think you can change the relationship, you are being selfish and egotistical. You are basically patronizing God. What is it you have to do to be saved? I'm sure you've heard the answer to that a million times. Is it DOING anything? Is it going to church, reading the bible, being a Christian, giving to the poor, not judging anybody, forgiving others or turning the other cheek? Of course it isn't. It's nothing. You don't have to do anything, to be saved all you have to do is accept the fact that you are saved. You're already saved, you think there is something you can do so that "God" will love you more or less than the next man? You are viewing a relationship with a force that you don't understand in the same way you view a relationship with another human being.

I don't get what it is with people, they think they need to work hard and do all these things and then finally obtain their reward because of their efforts. They can't accept the fact that it is easy as pie to receive salvation. I guess that's what makes it so hard.

__________________

I agree with what you said a lot right there teru but......it also says in the bible


Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

__________________

ADD ME LETS MAKE SOMETHING

TheMyspace

Yeah, I never said it was fine to sin.

And thanks for posting those passages, they confirmed something I didn't know where in the bible to look for proof of.

__________________

identity seems quite impossible sometimes =/ Anything I use to identify myslef can be changed or removed. Thanks for fucking up my mind once again, preciate it. And I'm not a religious person, but I admire the passion they have for their beliefs. I'm passionate about this black suit in spiderman 3 I can't seem to get.

Which is better, fucking your mind up or holding your mind down?

__________________

Well the latter. And nah was joking about the fucking up thing, by fucking up I mean "disrupting the certain crediblitiy of my reserved thinking patterns". Which is good in the long run, and just for that, I'm gonna post up a mind fuck thread right now in retaliation.

You bring up a lot of interesting points. One being the relationship and the other being salvation.

Now I'll get to the relationship a bit later cause I have to head out to class.

As for salvation, it is a FREE gift. Being that Christ died for our sins and we didn't have to do anything for that. According to the Bible we do NOT automatically recieve this gift of salvations.

Romans 10:9 says "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

So with that being said, there IS something you must do in order to recieve salvation.




As for that, there is no need to do all these "good works" in order to recieve salvation. That I agree with. It is simply Romans 10:9.

And that after Romans 10:9 the passages that Past Tense posted come into play.

That confessing with your mouth stuff is just a formality, I doubt it actually means anything. As soon as you realize and believe you're already saved, you're saved... You don't really do anything.

__________________

Now I don't mean to attack you when I say this. But the thing that marvels me is that the moment I actually give you evidence that is plain and simple, you say you doubt it.