I dont know my soul..

You asked me at the beginning of this what my worldly self is..

I wouldnt classify a soul as a wordly self...

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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But that wasnt the original question of the thread. The original question was who are you REALLY? And you replied by saying you are your worldly self.

"Don't know" your soul? You were just talking about it. Its who you are. You just said you don't know who you are.

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Slow down for a second man.. I think your getting ahead of yourself..

Lets re-cap..




Call it what you want, a worldly identity/self.......

Its the same thing.

As for my soul... Who fucken knows?
How would you define a soul?

How would you know your soul...?

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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Is it possible to define something that continually changes? If I define myself now, in a millisecond from now, I would be something/someone different for whatever reason, maybe adding to who I am someone who answered a question. I don't have to keep a continual tab on what makes me, me, I just need to keep a tab on what will make me a better person.

Well, in my opinion.

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Soundclick

Well.. If the soul is the one that created your worldly self, and the soul is the one that thinks about the worldly self... Then if you get rid of the worldly self and the ego, it is safe to say you are your true self.

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Cause I dont think the soul created your wordly self...

I think your enviroment, life, experience, learning and everything else we take in on a day to day basis especially when were growing up is what creates the worldy self..

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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Yeah, but what is it thats inside you that processes all of those things?

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A brain....................

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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So in essence, who you think you are is a bunch of pre-conceptions, misconceptions, prejudices and biases, formed by previous experiences that control the way you think in the present moment.

Pretty cool existence man. Pretty cool.

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That would be my worldly identity yeah...

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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Nos, just admit that you can't fully define yourself and since you can't there is no reason to live. That's where this is going.

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Soundclick

The one which you hold so dearly.

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I've just come across a story that illustrates the true self quite well. It is a Taoist story, so if you are not aware of their beliefs just replace The Tao with Universe (for non-theists) or The Tao with God (for theists).

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"Master," the disciple asked, "what exactly is the true self?"

The sage replied, "Ultimately, your true self is the Tao and the Tao is you."

"I find that hard to believe, Master. The Tao is great; I am insignificant. The Tao is powerful; I have but a little strength. The Tao is unlimited; I labor under many limitations. The Tao is everywhere; I can only be in one place at a time. As far as I can tell, the Tao and I are completely different. How can you say that I am ultimately the Tao and the Tao is me?"

Rather than to respond directly, the sage handed the disciple a bowl: "Go to the nearby river with this and use it to bring back some water, then we'll continue the discussion."

The disciple carried out the order, but when he came back, the sage looked at the bowl and frowned. "Didn't I tell you to fetch the water from the river? This can't be it."

"But it is, Master," the disciple was confused by the disapproval. "I collected the water by dipping the bowl into the river. I assure you that this water absolutely is from the river."

"I know the river quite well," the sage said. "All kinds of fish swim in it, but I don't see any fish in this water. Numerous animals come to the river to drink from it, and yet I see no animals in this bowl. Many children from the village frolic in the shallows of the river. Well, I see no children here either. Therefore, this cannot be the water from the river."

"Master, it is only a small amount of water, of course it cannot contain all those things!"

"Oh, I see," said the sage. "Well, in that case, I want you to go pour the water back into the river."

The disciple did so with a puzzled expression on his face. He couldn't help but wonder what had possessed the sage to act so strangely. He completed his task and returned.

"Is the water back in the river?" the sage asked. The disciple nodded.

"Good," said the sage. "That small amount of water you brought back is now the same water that touches the fish, the animals and the children. In fact, everything that the river is now applies to the water we were both looking at just a while ago.

"Think of the river as the Tao and the water in the bowl as your true self. From a limited point of view, that water seems very different from the river. It is understandable how one can be led to believe that the two are not the same and can never be the same. The river is far greater than the bowl of water, just as the Tao is far greater than an individual human being.

"Having carried water from the river, you can now see it from an expanded perspective. The river is the source of the water, just as the Tao is the source of our true inner selves. You saw this for yourself as you dipped the bowl into the river, so you insisted that the water was the same even when I tried to convince you it wasn't.

"When you poured the water back, you saw that the separation of the water from the river was only temporary. It's just like that for the true self. Our physical existence is only a temporary condition. The eternal truth is that our innermost nature comes from, and ultimately returns to, the Tao. When all is said and done, we and the Tao are one."

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Well.. For starters.......He asked the guy to bring back some water FROM the river.....Not the whole river......

But other than that..

Its only really an ultimate philosophy if you look at life only from the physical plane we exist on and neglect anything beyond this reality that surrounds us.

Which is comming to conclusions based on limited knowledge.

Which is why me and you often have dissagreements...

Becuase these taoist dudes are conditioning you to think a certain way...

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RIP jono, peace out bboy.
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So thats your point? That he asked him to bring back water from the river?

Im glad you can read and all that, but honestly what does that have to do with anything? It is a very simple story, with a clear meaning, and it relates perfectly to things we have talked about before. It would be better for you to make an argument against the meaning of the story, that relates to what we are talking about in this thread.

What conclusions am I coming to based on lmited knowledge?

How am I being conditioned by something in which one of the main teachings is to get rid of your conditioned mind and ponder issues with a clear mind?

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