dude, i read through the thread... and believe me, i have heard EVERY single one of your arguments before.

by the way, chill the fuck out with the personal shots... talking big and bad on an internet forum makes you look retarded as hell.

now, first of all - this generic claim that obama's policies are "close to bordering socialism" is played as hell. do you have any fucking clue what socialism is? bush's tax cuts benefited only the extremely wealthy in this country, and mccain has stated that he plans to make those same "tax cuts" that bush established permanent. the idea that instead giving tax cuts to those who need it, benefiting the lower and middle class, is somehow "socialist" is straight up republican propaganda that you have been brainwashed into believing. are you serious?!? humane? yes.
socialist? HELL no.


and i'd like to address this response of yours to CALI's post:


the statement CALI made was not a stretch whatsoever. the fact is, our generation WILL be paying out of our asses for bush's unnecessary and illegal invasion of a sovereign nation... yet republicans want to preach against raising any kind of taxes when they're being raised to actually help those in need in this country (who are, of course NOT republicans). the republican party is the most pompous, elitist group of people... blahhhhh q;liajioajdls;kfjakl;djfadfoiajweohf[ioaudfljansdflkasjdf

lol, it just blows my mind sometimes that people can actually consciously stand behind the conservative ideals of the republican party.

ROFL

now 2v's saying that only Fox News is biased

again, i'm a huge Obama supporter. but to sit and say that the media isn't being fair to Obama. ROFL

MSNBC...totally fucks Obama....


only station i see with 'semi'....fair news reports, is CNN. Only becuase it seems to have shows that have people who are conservative and liberal

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What? I didn't sit there and say shit, I said that the news organizations GLORIFY McCain. It's bullshit.

& as far as MSNBC goes, they complete fucked over all the good candidates with false comments and pathetic opinions. When the polls popped up that Ron Paul got a majority of the poll online, the fucker doing the report was like "It seems Ron Paul has a lot of crazy internet fans."

pretty much a direct quote.. That fuck head with the orange hair that does HardBall or whatever kept quoting and twisting Mike Gravel's words to make Mike look like an idiot, but most of the media does that anyway. Mike Gravel has a lot of good things to say but the news organizations falsely project his words. I would give an example but I doubt anyone cares to read.. Fact is, you shouldn't trust any news that is payed for by the government. Especially if you don't trust the government.

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I almost made it through your first real paragraph before it became obvious to me that you either haven't read any of my posts or you're too stupid to comprehend them. I've stated time and time again in this thread that I'm not talking about the "rich," and am actually talking about the middle class. If you haven't managed to pick that up yet then there's no way in hell I'm going to explain this all over again for you.

Oh, and Bush's "tax cuts for the rich" is actually a bunch of political bullshit, as the figures actually suggest something completely different. I said earlier in this thread (you would have fucking saw it if you would have read this thread) that'd I'd gladly post up the figures as taken from the Bureau of Economic Analysis if anybody still wanted to say Bush is only helping the rich. I'm not a fan of Bush, but to say that he's only helping the rich is inaccurate.

And yes, the redistribution of wealth in a nation IS socialist, period. Raising taxes to outrageous levels IS socialist. Taxes are a socialist concept by themselves, but we need them, and that's why I've never argued to abolish them. However, when you start taxing the shit out of middle class people to give to the lower class people it is socialism. That's not propaganda, are you fucking stupid? Explain to me how that is not the redistribution of wealth and I will gladly say it is not socialist.

I'm not going to sit here and retype everything I've already said in the last 7 pages, so if you don't read my posts and don't say something that other people haven't already said and I haven't already addressed, I'm going to stop paying attention to your posts. You've disagreed with me over political shit for years, and nothing ever gets accomplished.

^ ? seriously? look kid, YOU're the one who clearly didn't read my post. your whole defense once again was "i'm not talking about the rich." do i need to quote myself? YOU AREN'T RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. this isn't a debate over voting for Mimesis. so what you're "talking about" is irrelevant. the facts are that the ONLY group of Americans that have benefited economically from Bush's term is the top 1%. PLEASE try and prove otherwise... and PLEASE stop saying that i haven't read your posts and actually respond to mine. and writing off everything i say by saying that everything liberals say is "political bullshit" isn't a response.

Look, you fucking retard, OBAMA'S NOT GOING TO BE TAXING THE SHIT OUT OF JUST THE TOP 1% OF THE POPULATION. HE'S GOING TO BE TAXING THE SHIT OUT OF MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE, AND THAT'S WHY I'M TALKING ABOUT THEM. The fact is, you don't fucking know what you're talking about and you're stupid to realize it. And sounds good, I'll find my economics folder on Monday (I have it stored at a locker in the library on campus) and post up the actual figures for you. You're fucking stupid, Bush's tax cuts didn't just help the top 1% of the population. You're wrong, period, and even after I prove it to you I know you'll still keep spewing inaccurate bullshit.

And I laugh at you calling me kid. My knowledge of the economy towers yours, you fucking idiot.

I've responded to yours, what the fuck? It's just kind of hard when you're STILL saying Obama is only helping the top 1% of the population. What do you want me to say other then, "You're wrong." YOU ARE WRONG. I can't argue a point that doesn't fucking exist. You saying only the top 1% is going to be helped isn't accurate, so of course I have no fucking response to that argument.



Please, since you so conveniently forgot, explain to me how redistributing the wealth of a country is not socialism. I can't wait to see what bullshit you can make up!

don't get your pathetic little conservative panties in a bunch, kid.

Obama plans on cutting the taxes for those below the $250,000 range and raising it for those above... i've heard so many conservatives make the same argument you did, that Obama is somehow going to be taxing the shit out of the middle class. look, if $250,000+ is the middle class then i'm not worried about the middle class, lol. i'm more concerned about the people making less than $10,000 a year, and about re-establishing the middle class that your president destroyed.

and what i'm DEFINITELY not concerned about is terminology. the difference between socialism and a liberal economic policy is the degree in which money is redistributed. a liberal economic plan like obama's concerned with helping people, and money is not going to be re-distributed NEARLY to the level where people are going to start becoming un-motivated to work hard, etc. (another argument i've heard ignorant ass conservatives like yourself make).

less then 10,000 a year is middle class? lmao....


i think obama would win a lot more votes if he planned on taking that tax money...and instead of redistributing it to people who don't make shit.....redistribute it to the cities with poor economies....clean up the cities...put it into schools...pay teachers...police force...create an enviroment that gives people less of an excuse not succeed in....instead of just giving people money who might not necessarily deserve it.


Just my 2 cents

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Time is not long, and indecision is hells cemment. So the well is rented, untill heaven is relevant. Untill then, to be eloquent, sex cells, so le'ts cellibate.

"watch what you watchin...fox keeps feedin' us toxin's..stop sleepin' start thinkin outside of the box and unplug from the matrix doctrine....but watch what you say cause big brother is watchin" - nas - sly fox

The I.H.C.J.S.F.M.T.R.H.P.M.M.W.T.S.M.S.I.T.F.F.W.A.S. O Crew

of course $10,000 a year isn't middle class. thats not what i was saying, i was saying a person making $250,000 a year isn't the main concern of the Obama campaign. people making $10,000 a year, for example, AND the middle class are the concerns of the Obama campaign.

You're more worried about people making less than $10,000 a year and I'm more worried about keeping a capitalistic economy intact. Now we've reached a point where the debate ends because there's nothing you can say to me and there's nothing I can say to you that is going to change either of our values or beliefs.

And you should be worried about terminology if you're going to start saying Obama's tax policies aren't socialist. They are. The degree that money is redistributed, and the meaning/purpose/plan behind it, doesn't change the fact that it is socialism. At the core it's still the redistribution of wealth.

And once again, we're reaching a point where the debate is going to end because now we're predicting the future. In my opinion, if you start taxing the people who make 250k a year, they will be less motivated to do the things that they're doing. In your opinion they won't be. The difference between our two opinions is that history backs mine up, and not yours.

Calling me ignorant is stupid and inaccurate. I'm ignorant about some things, much like everybody else, as ignorant is just defined as the lack of knowledge of something, but the economy isn't one of those things. May I ask what makes you think I'm ignorant? In fact, what makes you think you're not ignorant? You stated repeatedly in this thread that McCain will only help the top 1% of this population, which implies ignorance to me. You stated that taxing the shit out of people making 250k a year isn't socialism, which also implies ignorance to me. So, what brings you to the conclusion that you're not ignorant? What was your major in college? What was your GPA? What learning or knowledge do you have that makes you not ignorant, despite the ignorant posts you've made in this thread?

all i can say is....

i've taken...basic economic courses...as they are not needed for my major....but my roommate is a business finance major.....and he's come home and explained to me the many intricacies of micro/macroecomics...

and i can tell ALL of you this..when it comes to economic debate...someone who hasn't had the type of instruction that goes into micro/macroec........can't legitimately or successfully debate with someone who has.

those courses are no joke.

I've taken political science courses....so i know a thing or two about politics....so i can debate on politics reasonably...but...i already know mimesis knows more about economic issues then i probably ever will....and i know more then most of my peers...those courses are just on a completely different level.

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Time is not long, and indecision is hells cemment. So the well is rented, untill heaven is relevant. Untill then, to be eloquent, sex cells, so le'ts cellibate.

"watch what you watchin...fox keeps feedin' us toxin's..stop sleepin' start thinkin outside of the box and unplug from the matrix doctrine....but watch what you say cause big brother is watchin" - nas - sly fox

The I.H.C.J.S.F.M.T.R.H.P.M.M.W.T.S.M.S.I.T.F.F.W.A.S. O Crew

Thought about it and no. I won't be voting for John McCain this fall. But Obama just seems too inauthentic for me as well. I'm looking at Bob Barr.

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this post brought to you by..
Maleficent

I wont lie, i've never really thought about doing that.


But after thinking about it, i would say that your prob. right. N that idea is much better idea than just giving money to people. Make people motivated, and give them the surroundings to suceed, for live long sucession, isntead of momentarily being successful


props V

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V for president!!!

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