This is a different issue to what I was talking about... Im not a christian, but I think I understand christianity and why they believe it, probably more than most christians do.

Its hard to explain... (ill be taking a christian perspective for this and talking as if I were a christian, to make things easier.)

God doesn't murder innocent people or cause them life long pain.. and the situation in third world countries isn't his fault. God gave humans freedom, right? So how can you blame God if a human invention, like a car, kills your friend? How can we blame God if some guy rapes and murders an innocent teenage girl? God gave the rapist freedom, and although tragedies deeply hurt God, it would be stupid for him to stop all suffering.

Its a nice idea, but if God changed things to prevent suffering, it would probably result in even more suffering. If God put an end to the big sinners like Hitler, pol pot etc, that would make terrorists, armies etc the worst sinners. If God put an end to those, it would make rapists, murderers etc the worst sinners. If God put an end to those people, it would make drug dealers and shoplifters the worst sinners. It would just keep going until something like everyone who tells a lie dies instantly, and everyone who thinks about a girl sexually when they arent married dies. Its just not practical. And you might say "well why doesnt he just not kill them, but change the events?" .. Same thing.

Say a guy was playing golf. The people in front of him were taking a while, and he had to be quick to get to a meeting. After he showered and shit, he goes out to the parking lot and because he's in such a hurry, he runs into an old lady. The old lady falls over, hits her head and dies. Is that guy a murderer? Shouls god have changed physics so that she had a soft fall? Should God have hurried the guys in front of the golfer, or made him take a longer or shorter shower? If God intervened in every instance that caused suffering, there would be no constants or free will in the world.

My last point is that even if suffering was Gods fault, it shouldnt affect a christian. We deserve it. God could kill 3 billion people for no particular reason, and in no way would it be morally wrong. Consider this scenario:

A crowd is at the gates of heaven. Many of them are overcome by God's immense power, knowledge and wisdom, and God judges them rightfully. But a lot of groups of people up the front are heated... Questioning the validity of gods right to judge them. A girl pulls up her sleeve, and there is a tattoo of a number. She says "God doesnt know suffering... I was experimented on, saw my family and friends die around me... I was killed in the concentration camps, just for being a jew." A black man pulls down his collar and reveals a mark on his neck. "God is a sheltered God... how can he know the pain we have all felt? I was lynched for no reason other than the color of my skin." A 40 year old woman pulls up her shirt and reveals a stab wound. She says "I caught my son stealing and doing drugs.. He said he didnt want to be my son anymore, and stabbed me. God doesnt know what it feels like..."

There was an uproar. All the groups, the jews, the blacks, the ones with mental or physical disorders, the murdered, the raped, the innocent, the diseased etc... They all sent forward a representative, chosen because they had suffered the most. The representatives collaberated and thought of an idea that was quite clever. Before God had the right to judge them, he had to go through what they did.. Each group shouted out a part of Gods sentence.. "God should be sentenced to live as a human! He should be born as a jew to know that pain! he should be alienated from others to know that pain! He should be ridiculed! He should feel how hurtful it is to be forsaken by something you created! He should suffer a long painful death, and people should make sure he's dead! He should know what it truly feels like to be alone!" After the last representative finished shouting their part, there was a long silence... They realised that God had already served his sentence.
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Do you understand where im going with this? "the lord has given, and the lord has taken away." - Job something verse something... You cant not believe in God because you've suffered. It makes no sense. And daubs, i recall you were a christian before that accident...

any queries, let me know.

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Il reply indepth tommorow, but i was never a christian, prior to the incident or now.

And glance reading it i see your point, il reply tommorow.

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Daubs MySpace

Alright fuck it, i read it all.


I understand what your getting at and respect that, but for the reason of those innocents getting murdered, i believe there isnt a god.

You said about eventually the crime heirachy coming down to petty sexuall thoughts being punished due to the fact all the rapist, murderers etc were killed, well if there was a god and he brought us all to this world, do you think he would have created us to do things like that in the first place?

And as for the old woman scenario, and in what happened to my friend, i blame that on random chaos...again not god related.

I think that theory is a lot more respectable and believable than "god does it all for a reason".

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Daubs MySpace

However...i strony dissagree that there is a physical god, maybe individual gods in peoples heads which they look to for support.

If it was proven that there wasnt a god...which will eventually happen i believe, it will have draatic effects across the world.

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Daubs MySpace

hmm,....i see both sides here, both very valid points..
daubs imo, god isnt per say takin innocent life...
hes givin it to them.... thou they might die....
we all come to the same end...
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i agree with most everything omb put down...its valid
..
omb, that scenario..where did you get it..?
ive read something simular in a bible once...

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i'll play on ya consience, ya contents is complete nonsense
speak of biting, then you fucks flip everyone of my damn concepts
what the fuck, was you high..?
did you think i wouldn't recognize lines that i made
then you come up some bullshit tryna prove that im gay...!
.
.
fake fucks..move on...!

He gave people freedom. Since adam and eve, humanity steadily declined. Who knows why god chose to give humans freedom.

Why would innocent deaths mean there is no god? A human kills another human, and you blame god instead of the killer?

that accident with your friend could be described as "random chaos" as well, you know. Think about the family and friends of the old lady...

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Its not from the bible. It was part of a book written in the 60's that I read a while ago. I just remembered the jist of it and recreated it.

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i guess im missin something rather personal???
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.

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i'll play on ya consience, ya contents is complete nonsense
speak of biting, then you fucks flip everyone of my damn concepts
what the fuck, was you high..?
did you think i wouldn't recognize lines that i made
then you come up some bullshit tryna prove that im gay...!
.
.
fake fucks..move on...!

I blame god due to the fact he put that ability into the human brain and mind which was eventually processed.

And as for the old woman scenario, and in what happened to my friend, i blame that on random chaos...again not god related.

Yeah i posted that in my post,

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Daubs MySpace

But I thought you didnt believe in God?

What you're doing is like me blaming santa because I didnt get presents last christmas. Blaming something that doesnt exist, because of something that is either my fault, or the fault of those around me.

Morals and ethics are human created concepts.

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Yeah, 6 months ago on monday, a fatal accident happened to a friend of mine. She was 13.

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Daubs MySpace

I dont believe in god, i was speaking in the perspective of a believer,

you asked if i was blaming god for allowing murders etc, and i was saying yes.

cause if he existed and created us, why would he give the ability to murder / rape etc another human.

I understand that the topic is complex and can never really be settled, not in the short term anyway.

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Daubs MySpace

He gave us freedom. If thats what some people do with their freedom, then so be it. Actions are fuelled by emotion, remember? So you're actually blaming God for making us able to feel emotions.

And if you dont believe in a God, then your friends death means nothing. She was born of chance, and she died of chance. Nothing out of the ordinary at all, from an atheists perspective.

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I dont believe in god...but i have a heart.

To think that a few days before i was sat in her living room having a laugh and a joke with her, not realising its the last time i'd ever see her. That fuckin hurt, hurt a lot.

And thats from a human perspective, not a spiritual.

Im saying if there was a god he just wouldnt do what i posted in my last post,

Il stick to the scientific route and random chaos, but i do respect your oppinion.

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Daubs MySpace