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Old 02-18-11, 09:39 PM   #46
Dabatos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsWhatSheSaid
Jesus SAVES ALL who seek refuge in him, honestly, as equally terrible as it can seem it also shows Gods amazing and unfailing Love, and the absolution of his Justice. Jesus hung out with the sinners, not to be like them but to save them, the lost are the ones who need to be found most. As far as the part about going to hell because you are a Jew, Gods word is clear, it doesn't matter what or who you are, salvation is in Jesus Christ and accepting him as your Lord and Savior, which is no different for someone who isn't Jewish. Also, as far as every post that said Religion (Which I don't practice), but (for the sake of this post I'll say I partake in, I'm actually a Born Again believer, I have a personal relationship with Christ, don't label me) but, those that said it was for the weak don't understand the strength it takes to stay faithful, to always turn to God, in all things, and to restrain from temptation in all forms.


Amen Yo!.........
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Old 02-19-11, 11:15 AM   #47
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Way to not address any real points made disproving the likeliness of Christianity.
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Old 02-19-11, 04:57 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatsWhatSheSaid
Jesus SAVES ALL who seek refuge in him, honestly, as equally terrible as it can seem it also shows Gods amazing and unfailing Love, and the absolution of his Justice. Jesus hung out with the sinners, not to be like them but to save them, the lost are the ones who need to be found most. As far as the part about going to hell because you are a Jew, Gods word is clear, it doesn't matter what or who you are, salvation is in Jesus Christ and accepting him as your Lord and Savior, which is no different for someone who isn't Jewish. Also, as far as every post that said Religion (Which I don't practice), but (for the sake of this post I'll say I partake in, I'm actually a Born Again believer, I have a personal relationship with Christ, don't label me) but, those that said it was for the weak don't understand the strength it takes to stay faithful, to always turn to God, in all things, and to restrain from temptation in all forms.



But so what about the native tribe recently discovered in the brazilian amazon who have never been contacted by the outside world yet? I highly doubt they even know what a Jesus Christ is. I highly doubt they know what a bible is. I highly doubt they even know what paper to read shit off of is. So, they're all going to hell because they never seeked refuge in Christ? That doesn't even make sense.

How you're raised is how you are raised and it's a hard thing to change and a personal matter. You think a nice Jewish boy who grew up on kosher food and bagels, went to a private school with only Jews in it, lived in an all Jewish neighborhood, who's parents business contacts are all Jewish aka their future business, is going to decide to convert anytime soon? That's fucking ridiculous - his/her parents would shun them from the family, the community would shun them. Everyone they know, every single person in their life is probably a Jew. No one is going to do business with them anymore if they found out they converted to Christianity and eat bacon for breakfast now. And to a lot of close nit Jewish community families, business is pretty much their whole deal, like that's their life. If you grow up as a Jew, just because some asshole in the subway decides to invade your space and shove a bible in your face and ask you if you're Christian and upon replying "No, I'm a Jew and I'm not interested sorry" continues to ask if you'd like to come to their church just to check it out, isn't going to make you suddenly up and decide "You know what! I change my mind on everything I've been raised on and taught to believe, I'm a born again Christian!" No way man, no way. Quite the contrary and I say this with supreme confidence that the average Christian is MUCH more likely to convert to Judaism then vice versa. Be it because they met a Jewish girl and the family expects him to convert if he wants to be accepted into the family and the business, be it so he can associate with Jewish businessmen, or be it cuz he just wants to be a fucking Jew who knows, trust me, it's much more likely. Jews aint gonna fucking convert man lmao, it's stupid, for what? Faith? A guess? A hope that maybe just maybe if I throw my whole life away and ruin my relationship with my family and everyone I know and discontinue a family business that has been passed down for generations, that hopefully I'll end up in heaven when it's all said and done and it'll have been worth it? That's fucking stupid, period. And if you think a supreme God can't understand that, then you're stupid too, period.

It just logically doesn't add up if you think about it. How could getting a ticket to such an amazingly described place like heaven be so simple as to close your eyes and say "Jesus Christ I accept you into my heart as my lord and savior" despite how you lived your life aka being able to murder and kill and rape and steal and disobey pretty much every commandment and follow the seven deadly sins to a tee. I don't think it's that easy bud. If God is supposed to be some complicated and extraordinary being then I don't understand why people are so intent on trying to humanize him by acting like they know him personally and what God thinks. No one knows what God thinks, no one has the right to say they know what God will or will not do, what he wants and what he doesn't want, what he would agree with and what he wouldn't agree with. Nobody from any religion, nobody in the entire world has the right to pass judgement on God, be it good or bad judgement. You can't tell me shit about God only letting christians into heaven because God never came down to nobody and said it and had it officially recorded and documented. The bible is not official. No body on this earth personally communicates with God or understands God or knows God's intentions, they just attempt to, which in itself I feel to be very disrespectful to a supreme power. Because as much as you'd love to fantasize you have this wonderful relationship with God, the fact is you don't, no one does, not personally atleast. So for anyone to say they know his desires is an insult to his power. There is no way it would be that simple to get to heaven. You think letting rapists into heaven just cuz they decided to be christian but letting african kids who spent their whole lives starving with no education who never had the chance to even learn about or hear the word "Jesus" once in their life-time rot in hell is absolute love? That's not absolute love? That sounds like some kind of nostalgic and demonic demi urge which quite frankly is no God I would want to associate myself with or be a part of. I think it's all just one big plan to keep humans seperated even more then we already are. Only the few chosen ones make it, we are better then you because we are going to heaven and you aren't, we are different and because of it we don't like you as much so we will now segregate ourselves from you.

Nah, we're all the same. God knows we are all the same. That's one thing you can judge about God.

And I'll be fucking surprised if you could give me a logical retort to that, that actually validates your arguement and discredits this one. Fuck it, I'll even accept Jesus as my lord and savior if you can.
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Old 02-21-11, 01:00 PM   #49
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This is the thing your not getting at bro. No one is good enough to enter Heaven, and God knew that. Romans 3 says that "No one is righteous, no not one." And GOd knew no one can be righteous enough, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Religion in this world is man trying to work up their way to God, but Christianity is God working his way to man. As you stated, there are murderers, rapist, dictators, etc.. The reason for that is the sin that lives in us bro. Every one of us are sinners, everyone of us have messed up. But you know what's awesome? Jesus still died for you and me even when we didnt deserve it. Romans 5:8 says "But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." But to answer your question about that tribe.

Romans 1:19-23 says "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or gives thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things." Even if you have not heard of Jesus, you can see him in everything he created it, yet they still worship the creation instead of the creator. I dont know why they won't go to Heaven, But I do know that God said "I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the father except through me." - John 14:6.. and if God said that, I think I would want to believe what He said. Because He's a jealous God, why would he want to show his glory with another false god some person made up.

The crazy thing is, your trying to create a God in your mind you think you know. The fact is God has always existed. The fact is that, if God is real, wouldn't he want to show people how to go to Heaven? Wouldn't He want to show us how to reach Him? And He did show us! Starting with the 10 commandments. He proved to us with those 10 commandments that none of us can keep that our entire lives. We will mess up at one point. But you may say "Well I haven't killed someone, i can keep that commandment." well 1 John 3:15 says 'Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer.."

God used those 10 commandments to show us that we can never be good enough to be righteous, so he died for you so we can be called righteous in his name. "For God so loved the world He gave His one and only Son so that whomever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16..

So we are made righteous by believing in Him, but not just saying you believe in Him will save you. Because even the demons believe in Him but they are not saved. If you truly believe you are are sinner, and believe that He died for you and there's no other way you can enter heaven without Him, than you are saved! Which will result into a repented life from living without Him to living with Him.

"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness (IF i can be saved) were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." Galatians 2:21

So if you think you can be good enough to go to heaven, than God died for nothing. Why would he come into a human body, and die for you if you can simply go to heaven by being good enough?
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Old 02-21-11, 05:21 PM   #50
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The thing is you can't prove God actually said any of that. You can't prove Moses actually heard God say anything to him. You can't prove shit and yet you act like you have the hardest facts and like it's something I never read before or gave thought to. Yes I did create my own theory of God in my mind, just like someone else did when they wrote the first bible, so how dare you pass judgment on me for that. I won't share my theory with any of you ignorant people, but at least my own religion preaches equality, and doesn't state that any other religion is wrong, and doesn't conflict with any other religion, and my theory of God, though not 100% proven, at least has hard scientific facts to back it up and reinforce it, and that's something no other religion that was based on a God does. And the funny thing is, most religions have aspects that if you believe, are also aspects that reinforce my own religion. No other main-stream religion preaches peace and equality. And that's why you fight and fight and fight, and kill and kill and kill. And like I said, it doesn't make sense that a God with a power and intellect strong enough to create a universe, would be so non-understanding like that. Yes everyone of us are sinners, did everyone one of us murder, rape and kill though? No. So just because we all have sinned, don't ever compare me to those types of people and try to claim we're all just one giant group of sinners like there's no difference between us. There's a big difference, I'm a good person, they're all pieces of shit and the scum of society, and if you ever try to compare me to them and say we are similar, you're going to make me a really angry person, and you already did.

Then you speak of the tribes and quote that man-written paragraph as your example for the tribes. Dude wtf? The BIBLE is what let people know that apparently, God made humans in the image of himself so that's what God must look like. So for people who never get a chance to read the bible, how are they supposed to know they are the image of God? They don't know, they can't know, and for anyone to expect them to be able to just figure that out all by themselves with no form of education or holy literature is just plain extremely stupid. To them maybe this whole planet put together is God. Maybe that's what God is to them. Or maybe that giant mechanical thing flying through the air (aka the airplane with the film crew that documented them) is God to them because they see some giant fucking thing flying through the sky that they've never seen before and think "WTF IS THAT, THAT MUST BE GOD" because they don't know wtf a plane is because they lack any education what so ever so they decide to pray to that thinking maybe that's what created the (to their extent of knowledge) very small world around them, and if you think that's their own fault and they should know better, then you're a dick. That's like you give a little kid a knife to play with and he cuts himself and you say "he shoulda been able to figure out that a sharp edge could hurt him" it's fucking ignorant to just expect them to figure that out on their own and ANYONE would say that's bad parenting, so are you trying to call God a bad father now? Ouch. Just because they don't believe in the christian definition of a God, does not mean that they don't worship God. If God is inside everything and they worship nature then that means they worship God in that form, not in the christian man-looking form. Which to say we are the image of God is fucking stupid in the first place, just once again trying to humanize God even more to make us feel closer to him, but guess what, we aren't close to him, we are very, very, very far away.

And are they really just savages with no souls who don't deserve to go to heaven because they don't share our intellect like the old christians used to proclaim about the native americans? No they're not. They know how to communicate, build, form communities, these are still humans we're talking about who posses an intelligence of their own, intelligent enough to live in and survive in one of the most dangerous environments where someone like you, with all your education and worldly and godly knowledge, would not have enough intelligence to last for more than a week. To me, WE are the savages, destroying our own earth that God created for us. God creates this beautiful place for us and what do we do? We start destroying our own O-zone layer, dumping oil into oceans, making species of animals extinct, is that a nice way to worship God? No, we all fucking take God and what he gave us for granted, but they DON'T. God put his hand out to us and we fucking shit on it. So don't you ever fucking judge these people and tell me they are fools because WE are the fools and YOU are the fool because you're just another human who disrespects God, takes what he gave you for granted, and destroys his creation everyday more and more. You may think because you're all holier then thou that it means you don't take his creation for granted but you do, maybe not as much as big corporate owners who's factories pump gasses in the atmosphere, but you do. We are the fucking fools. I am the fool, you are the fool, and we are the savages.

You wanna talk about Native Americans because if you believe that quote then Native Americans are those fools who worshiped animals and nature. So now you bring my ancestors into this and call them fools and make this personal. Ok lets make this personal then. Your christians claiming to be all holy and respectful of God came into OUR land and started destroying it and when we tried to fight back you exploited us and killed us, though the bible says thou shalt not kill. You chrsitians fucking exploit your own God and your own religion to acquire MAN MADE MATERIALS by saying "I can build wtf ever I want and destroy this environment and kill as many people as long as it makes me a lot of money because God gave me this world and its resources to use at my own disposal." That's some disrespectful shit right there.

Native Americans worshiped nature and animals because it's what allowed them to live how they do. And if God created everything, and they worship what he created, then they are giving thanks to God and INDIRECTLY WORSHIPING GOD, worshiping him and respecting him more then any of you ever did. And yea some Christians give thanks before their dinner but not all and even the ones who do the prayers are so redundant it's just like they're doing it to get it over with so they finally stuff their greedy mouths. YOU don't have respect for what God gave you because you can say and think you do but your everyday actions say otherwise. And you think you can just say a prayer and it makes it all better and makes it ok. Whatever helps you sleep at night right?

You're fucking ignorant, so fucking ignorant, to believe my ancestors were fools. Man that really struck a chord with me, that's the most bullshit quote I have ever read and homie some fucking FOOL MAN wrote that, not God. I believe, that God would never be such an inconsiderate prick to ever have the audacity to say that, that's what I believe.

So you believe what you want and keep following the views of the ignorant white man who would have came with their bibles to your asian land and killed all of you if they ever had the chance. I hate you people so much but yet I still hold love for this planet and the people in it. It's the type of shit that could honestly break me down because I know we have the power and the love and the community and the resources and technology at our disposal to create a modern utopia and live in peace and equality but we are lead by the least among us, the least noble, the least intelligent and we follow them into separate paths and we keep ourselves segregated and we do horrible things to each other in the name of our religions and leaders... it really hurts me deep inside, so fuck this stupid topic cuz I'm done thinking bout it.
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Old 02-21-11, 08:05 PM   #51
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JTR, don't bother wasting your time.

You can't win an argument with an irrational mind. They don't think straight to begin with, don't ever expect them to.
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Old 02-21-11, 10:03 PM   #52
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ill respond later, a lot to read.
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Old 02-22-11, 12:17 AM   #53
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Nah this dude wanna call my ancestors and their cousins, who his lil bitch christians raped and killed, fools. Then tell me after his christians raped and killed them, they went to bask in the glory of heaven while the natives went to burn in hell? Yea we killed some of you too after you started it and we scalped your heads, but we didn't rape your fucking women and kill your children though you pieces of shit. We didn't kill your fucking children. You treated us - men, women, and children, like we were just animals. Massacred us all... Then you keep us segregated by giving us indian reserves and act like you did it on our behalf as an apology. And then still have the nerve to call them fools, after you raped their women just like you raped your black slaves who the so-called evil christ killing Jews helped to escape from your evil hands. Yes Jews had a part in the african slave-trade too as well as christians and even muslims too. But it was the white Christians in North America who were the most dominant buyers of these slaves and mis-treated them and raped the women, and it was the Jews that took them in and gave them refuge. And yea guess what a little known fact is they also had, though in far less numbers, muslim slaves, chinese slaves, philippino slaves. Aren't you one of those asian cultures? I bet a christian raped one of your ancestors too, I guess I'm not the only one on this site.

You wanna claim you christians are the wise ones and everyone else is a fool? Yet here I am claiming I am a fool just like you and everyone else who has no choice but to disrespect nature and God because of the society we were raised in. I realize this, and I admit that I am a fool for it. But you'll never hear me say my Apache ancestors were fools.

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- William Shakespeare

So tell me who the real fool is. Because it seems like even Shakespeare doesn't agree with you. I got one of the greatest poets that ever lived on my side, who you got on yours? Rapists and murderers of children.


Ima let shakespeare put the stamp down....
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Old 02-22-11, 03:15 AM   #54
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Actually fuck it I got more to say.

Cuz my first post was hella respectful. I didn't put anyones religion down, I didn't say the bible wasn't true, I didn't say Jesus never existed, and I didn't call anyone a fool for believing in what they believe in and it was very well written and polite. My second post wasn't but if you couldn't tell that shit was me joking around and busting peoples balls with the way I was talking then you're stupid, I even said something like "talk about ghost stories or for jews the stock market crash which is equally terrifying to them" pretty much bashing on my own culture as jokes so it shoulda been known not to take it overly serious. Obviously there was some seriousness to my post and a point I presented though. But even then I didn't call Christians fools for what they believe in, or to stop being christians or anything like that, I just expressed my opinion how I think it's dumb christians feel like all christians, even the bad ones, can get into heaven, but good people of any other religion can't. That doesn't mean I feel like Christianity is stupid, I never said that in those 2 posts, I just said one specific thing about it that I felt was stupid. And I didn't direct my post at anyone directly, just talking to a public in general. My third post on this topic was after "thatswhatshesaid" posted. And once again I was very respectful, not bashing anyones religion and or claiming their religion to be foolish. I only expressed that I believed it to be foolish that anyone would think someone raised since birth to believe a different religion would suddenly convert to theirs just because they say it's the way to get to heaven, it wouldn't happen, and God should be able to understand that and understand why they wouldn't. That's all I was expressing along with how I don't like how ANY RELIGION tries to act like they know God personally and what he thinks and believes and his intentions etc etc. So I did nothing to deserve to hear that my people, my ancestors, and shit that I believe in, makes me a fool. That made shit personal, and that last post of mine is a result of that. So y'all wanna get personal with me now and claim we are the fools...

How about the crusades when Christians sent an entire army of thousands of young boys and only young boys into battle against grown muslim men to get completely slaughtered because they thought since children had sinned less in their lifetime, God would be more likely to protect them. You fucking stupid people. And you have the nerve to claim we're fools? YOU SENT FUCKING KIDS TO FIGHT AGAINST GROWN ASS MEN!? Really? Cuz you thought God would be more likely to protect them? Really? Just happened to believe that God would chose to protect you over muslims just because you're Christians and your religion is the better one and the only one that God actually supports. Really? So did your fucking faith end up holding true in the end that time? Im pretty sure God was looking down like "Wow, you stupid mother-fuckers, I can't protect these kids because this shit has nothing to do with me. I gave you guys free-will and you decided to kill eachother with it, don't look to me for protection. Damn.. that was a bad move for the christians." Then sat back with a bowl of popcorn.

Yea, so not only do you murder other peoples children, but you seem to murder your own children too? Don't even make me start to bring up the knights of templar don't even fucking push me there.

And for the record, there is a specific example in the Old Testament, where a good man who is not a Jew, gets to go to heaven (we're told). Conversely, sinners of all denominations end up in Hell.

So Jews believe that, as long as you're a good person and follow the entry requirement that a person going to heaven must follow the seven commandments laid down by Noah, that you can get into heaven even if you're not Jewish. You just need to be a good person. But that even if you are Jewish and you're a scummy muh fucka, or scummy muh fuckas of any religion, you'll go to hell.

But if you believe, truelly believe, it was God that literally said all the shit that's in the bible, then you believe that the old testement and the new testement are both Gods words, but you don't need to follow its rules or guidelines, only the ones from the new testement. Ok then but so what's the difference between the Old Testement and New Testement? It was a christian man who wrote the new on. That's the difference. And how convenient in the new one, God just suddenly decides to change his whole mind and go back on his own words, and decides that "you know what i'm not gonna do this whole 'good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell' thing anymore because it's too much work for me to decide through all these dead people who's worthy and who isn't and I'm lazy so fuck it I'm just only going to let Christians in now and fuck everyone else and fuck the the Jews who I had a close relationship with before and helped with miracles to escape Egypt and who have been good to me and worshiping me as their only God for thousands of years" yea how fucking convenient a new testement written by christian hands apparently in the words spoken from God would say that. Yea God just suddenly decided to change his mind completely. Surely.

And I still support certain aspects of Christianity but others definetly not as you can obviously see. And I'm not trying to support the Jewish religion over the Christian's and claim that's better either even though it appears I am. So don't get me twisted bitches because it really pisses me off that fucking Jews don't let women touch the Torah, it really pisses me off and it's fucked up. And I can say shit that I agree with and disagree with about every religion but that's not the topic that got brought up. So for the topics that did get brought I did use some comparisons to other religions to make points but that doesn't mean I'm supporting them and represent them over christianity, not at all. I got my own specefic beliefs that aren't from any other religion because I thought of them myself and that's the only shit I truelly believe in and that shit is gonna stay with me only I aint tryna spread it to the world because the world is ignorant.

And I've done studying on holy scriptures of many different religions, I've done research on their origins, and I hold a degree of respect for all religions and I wouldn't say any religion is foolish but when you push me by saying my people are foolish then you're gonna get shit for it. And I doubt any of y'all ever studied that much or researched other religions that much. Just only ever paid attention to your own and that's it and never researched into other religions not to feel like you want to convert but just for your own benefit and knowledge or other cultures, I highly doubt that. And I bet I know more about Christianity and its origins and how it destroyed the pagan religion (which had so many beautiful ideas and concepts) more then most average christians do.

So with that said, I'm fucking done that's it and that's all I have left to say for this thread and for you ignorant people and I'm fucking out.

AND IM FUCKING OUT.
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Old 02-23-11, 03:03 AM   #55
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You have 2 extremely long posts so i'll reply to them one at a time.

You said I cant prove that. I dont need to prove it, I dont need to prove the Bible period. The Bible alone defends it self. I find it very interesting that you say I cant prove that God actually said this or that, but at the same time, can you please prove to me that God did not say it? You're trying so hard to disprove me, when you can not prove yourself of your beliefs.

You admitted you created your own theory of God in your mind, and judging the Bible because someone wrote it. Here is one thing you got wrong, "All scripture is breathed out by God.." 2 Timothy 3:15. This means, all scripture is written, inspired by God. Though He used men to write it as vessels, he inspired everything that was written. He didn't inspire the man that held the pen, He inspired the Words in it. So no, the Bible wasn't created with some theories men made up. It doesn't even contradict anything in the old testament, but both the old testament and N.T. compliment each other.

But you also said there are scientific facts that back up what you believe in. I think that's awesome, can you show me? I can show you many scientific facts that prove the Bible is correct. Actually, science helps prove how correct, and accurate the Bible is. For example how the Bible new the earth was round before men did? While men thought the world was flat, the Bible said it was round? Hmm interesting...

You said "No other mainstream religion preaches peace and equality. And that's why you fight and fight and fight, and kill and kill and kill."

Do you realize that Christians are the ones being killed? Christians are the ones being persecuted? Christianity is the one religion that is persecuted more than any other religion in the world? Christians don't persecute, but are the persecuted. You said something about the crusades in the later post, I will get back to that later after I reply to this.

"And like I said, it doesn't make sense that a God with a power and intellect strong enough to create a universe, would be so non-understanding like that. Yes everyone of us are sinners, did everyone one of us murder, rape and kill though? No. So just because we all have sinned, don't ever compare me to those types of people and try to claim we're all just one giant group of sinners like there's no difference between us. There's a big difference, I'm a good person, they're all pieces of shit and the scum of society, and if you ever try to compare me to them and say we are similar, you're going to make me a really angry person, and you already did."

Its interesting you say that, because it doesnt make sense how a God with so much power, with such great a mind, speaking through such a simple Gospel, and yet so many dont understand it. You say, they murdered, but I didnt? You lied right? I bet you prolly stole one thing in your life, even as small as a pen accidently? Have you ever looked at a women with lust? Have you ever used God's name in vain? Sure you dead. So you broke a couple of commandments right there.

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." - James 2:10
You break one of them, you break all of them. Thats why we need Jesus. He knew no one can be good enough to go to heaven. No one is perfect, only He was. I'm sure not, no one else is.

And I'm not comparing you to anyone, we are all accountable for our own decisions.

But I like the fact you said "I'm a good person." But like i said earlier, you've lied right? You've prolly cheated on a test, talked crap about yoru mom behind her back? You prolly stole, you prolly hated someone like you hate me. You prolly hurt a few people emotionally and physically? So does that make you a good person? Oh well maybe you've changed?

Well if I killed someone 10 years ago, and got caught just now. Is it okay for me to tell the Judge whos trying to sentence me, "I changed, im a good person now, im not the same." No! We are all accountable for what we do. But with Jesus who died on the cross, he paid for our sins, so we dont have to be judged.

Okay thats a reply to your 1st paragraph.

Now, your getting mad at me because of what the Bible said. Not what I said. Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me." So we know you can't go to heaven unless you have Him. But! He also said, we must preach the gospel to the world, so everyone may have a chance to go to Heaven. Jesus knew without the gospel being preaching of Him, you cant go to heaven. Thats why a Christians priority in life is to preach the Gospel, to share the forgiveness of Christ for our Sins. So no, hes not a messed up God that doesn't care, He uses humans to preach His message, and its our laziness that causes so many to not hear the Gospel. So no God isn't a bad parent, and I never called him a bad Father. Oh and God isn't inside everything. He created everything but He isnt inside everything. Hes not in your pc, hes not in your phone, hes not in your blanket, but He's here. People love to worship what God created instead of the Creator. But I think its funny you dont think you were made in the image of God, what were you made in the image of? But I hope that answers your question on the 2nd paragraph.

Now, I am not saying people are horrible people. But no one is made good by what they do. We have all messed up, we have all done wrong and offended God in one way or another. There are very intelligent people in this world, without ppl like them, we wouldnt have internet, or technology like we do now. And yes we do mess up this world, thats because we are stupid. We are fools, we do stupid things. But what does that have to do with God? God made us, he gave us freewill. He doesnt force us to do things, he allows us to make choices. Which is choose Him or not.

And btw, I never dissed your "ancestors." I never dissed them, you are putting words in my mouth now.

You said,

"Your christians claiming to be all holy and respectful of God came into OUR land and started destroying it and when we tried to fight back you exploited us and killed us, though the bible says thou shalt not kill."


One, they are not my Christians, Two, I'm sorry for the people that came and did that. But who said they were all Christians in the first place? Yes, people came to america to find new land. British came to america, so did the french, spain, many different countries wanted to come to america. And they would have done the same thing. Not just Christians.

I never called your ancestors fools. Did you know that verse was directing to the greeks? But it applies to everyone, you, me, everyone else in the entirety of the world who denies the real God. Period.

Oh and the people God used to write the Bible, just to let you know, they were not white. And to my asian land, I was born in america no where else. And I'm glad some white guy, and spanish guy, and even an indian came to the Philippines to preach the Gospel. Thanks. And btw, ppl holding the bible did kill my people. We were enslaved for 200 years by the spanish, but they were not Christian. They claimed to be Christian but were not. So yes they killed millions of Filipinos.
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Old 02-23-11, 03:05 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTR

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
- William Shakespeare

So tell me who the real fool is. Because it seems like even Shakespeare doesn't agree with you. I got one of the greatest poets that ever lived on my side, who you got on yours? Rapists and murderers of children.
.


"Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise." 1 Corinthians 3:18

Pretty much the same concept, sorry the Bible came up with it first.
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Old 02-23-11, 03:28 AM   #57
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Now to reply to your other incredibly long post.

"I think its dumb Christians feel like all Christians, even the bad ones go to heaven, but good people of any other religion cant."

1. Not all people who "say" they are "christians" will go to heaven. Just because you say you are does not mean you are one. I know so many people that say they are christian but dont live like one. And for the bad ones, I'm one of them, I was a big time thief, made tens of thousands of dollars. When I accepted Jesus, my addiction to stealing evaporated and never stole from a store again. God changed me, and I'm not the same person I was before. Thats what Jesus does, when you accept Him in your life you change. But if you say your christian but continue to live that life, you're not really a christian.

From your post when you said you dont like how one religion thinks they personally know God. So you are saying, all religions could be right? You said you studied religion, but did you study the fact that they all contradict each other? There's no way they are all right. Theres no way 2 can be right. And for the fact why I am christian, I've studied the bible, I've studied other religions. I've studied Islam, Morminism, Jehovah's Witness, Buddhism, Catholicism, etc... Out of all the religion's I have studied about, Christianity is the only one to say you are saved by you faith, not by works for it is a gift by God. Christianity is the only religion to truly stick to the fact that God died for you and saved you and all you have to do is accept that by faith.

anyway about the crusades. Those people in the crusades were not Christians. A true genuine Christian would have not done what they did. They say they were Christian but they were not. Just because you sin less does not mean you are more protected by God. That is stupid to think you can be protected because you sin less. The Bible never says that. Perfect example they were not Christian. These people made up that fact to abuse the Word to their on selfish greed. So no, the armies of the crusades were not Christian.

Please bring up the Knights of the Templar, what do you have to say of them? And please show me a specific example in the Old Testament that you are talking about. I would love to see it, because I don't know what you are claiming with that statement.

The bible, even in the old testament does not claim you can go to heaven by being a good person. They had things called "sacrifices." These sacrifices they had were of animals so that their sins would be forgiven. Later in the New testament, Jesus becomes the perfect sacrifice for our sins so we dont need to sacrifice animals for our sins anymore. So even Jews knew they were not good enough in the Old Testament, because if they were, why did they sacrifice animals?

Yes The ENTIRE BIBLE (OT AND NT) are the Words of God. The Old testament, were full of laws, the new testament, jesus said we are not bound by those laws anymore. The laws of the old testament was a guideline before Jesus came, before the Holy Spirit came to convict us and teach us on how to Live. After J esus came, the laws of the OT dont matter anymore. If you actually study the OT, you will see prophecies concerning the messiah "Jesus." The Jews were awaiting a messiah, so that when he came, they would not be bound by those laws anymore. So no, God didnt change His mind. He knew what He was doing. And He didnt let just any christians in yet. Did you know Jesus preached to the Jews of salvation before the gentiles who are non-jews? So he preached to the Jews first so Jews may inherit salvation first. Please get that part right. Jesus didnt close his relationship, we did. Like I said that verse from romans how we chose to worship the creation instead of the creator. We rejected and denied God. He didnt deny us. We chose not to accept Him as our savior, he died for us so we can have a relationship with Him. Thats Christianity.

You cant possibly support one part of Christianity and deny the other parts, Christianity comes as a whole. The same reason not all religions lead to heaven. Not all "gods" lead to heaven except the One "God" Jesus.

I know Jews that read the torah, so I dont get what your saying how Jews dont let women read it. But im sure you believe there "has to be a God." If there is a God, would he really allow people to worship so many different gods, a god they created in their head? Or would he want them to worship HIM the True God that has always existed with wisdom he wrote through his Word?

Bro, you said you've done studying on Holy Scriptures of many different religions, on their origins. But you've gotten so many things wrong from what I read. BTW, I didnt say people are foolish, the bible said it and I stand by that. WHy? Because the Bible is the Word of God and so that means God said it Himself. If you would want me to prove to you the inerrancy of the Bible I'd love to do that if you would ask.

So yes, I have studied many religions, and from that, I know why I am a christian. I know why I believe in Jesus as Lord and savior. I am studying religion, and I do study to defend the faith and the hope of what I believe in.

But bro, you said your not gonna reply to this but I'm sure your going to read this. GOd loves you man. Jesus loves you, He died for you becuase he loves you! WHen we didn't deserve it, he came down to earth to die for you! Isn't that love amazing enough? All we have to do is accept Him in our lives as our savior and repent of our sins and thats it! After that everything follows bro! All of my replies was to simply to defend against what you stated. I never wanted to get into this deep because I knew of how much work I'd have to do just to type. But dude, Jesus loves you man.

"For God so loved the world He gave His one and only Son, so that whomever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16..

God loves you man, if you have any questions just hit me up, even message me and i'll be more than glad to get back at you. Just please think about this. I'm praying for you bro, and I do hope you consider this. Jesus died because he loved you. Jesus created you so he can have a relationship with you. God bless homie! Think about it.

- Chris
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Old 02-23-11, 09:08 AM   #58
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Thank you for saying you are sorry for what those people did to mine. I still feel like if you were quoting that passage then it means you agree and it is also your own opinion and belief that they were fools still. But I'll let it go and respond respectfully and maturely once again since you extended me the same curtosy.
You made some points just now that you thought were solid (mainly the one about the earth being round) and they would be but unfortunatly you're talking to someone who has read the entire old testament and new testament more then once, more then twice, who used to believe in the Christian religion as a kid and memmorize bible verses. My mother is Irish-Prodestant, and I was sent to a Christian bible camp (Park-side Ranch) 3 summers straight when I was a kid. Where they avidly would brain-wash me and made me cry when they straight up told me to my face as a 9 year old kid that my father, being Jewish, would go to hell for all eternity as he had not accepted Jesus into his heart. Needless to say my father decided I wouldn't be going back for a 4th year once I told him that. But thanks to my studying of the bible while there, I am able to present you passages that contradict the very point you thought would win this debate for you. After this you will not believe that the bible said the earth was round anymore (in the sense you percieved it as), as it appears you have always thought it did, and your eyes will be opened. Observe.
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Old 02-23-11, 09:09 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabatos
You have 2 extremely long posts so i'll reply to them one at a time.

You said I cant prove that. I dont need to prove it, I dont need to prove the Bible period. The Bible alone defends it self. I find it very interesting that you say I cant prove that God actually said this or that, but at the same time, can you please prove to me that God did not say it? You're trying so hard to disprove me, when you can not prove yourself of your beliefs.
I already stated that the bible cannot be dis-proven or proven by factual evidence, yet. The thing is I'm not the one who believes in something that has no proof. I can tell you that dragons exist and so does an alternate universe where Jedi's are fighting for control against the evil Sith, and you wouldn't be able to disprove that and I wouldn't be able to prove that either. I'd still look stupid for believing in it.

You admitted you created your own theory of God in your mind, and judging the Bible because someone wrote it. Here is one thing you got wrong, "All scripture is breathed out by God.." 2 Timothy 3:15. This means, all scripture is written, inspired by God. Though He used men to write it as vessels, he inspired everything that was written. He didn't inspire the man that held the pen, He inspired the Words in it. So no, the Bible wasn't created with some theories men made up. It doesn't even contradict anything in the old testament, but both the old testament and N.T. compliment each other.
Ah ah ah *waves finger* you can't say I got it wrong remember? You can't prove that I was wrong just as I can't prove I was right . So for this we agree to disagree. I think it was just men that wrote it, you think it was God who told men what to write or something like that. K cool

But you also said there are scientific facts that back up what you believe in. I think that's awesome, can you show me? I can show you many scientific facts that prove the Bible is correct. Actually, science helps prove how correct, and accurate the Bible is. For example how the Bible new the earth was round before men did? While men thought the world was flat, the Bible said it was round? Hmm interesting...
No. I'm not going to show you or anyone else for that matter my beliefs and religion/philosophy. I'm happy you brought this up though because unfortunatly for you I also know some hebrew words, and I know the exact passage you're talking about along with its original hebrew text. Actually I know the original hebrew text of all the passages from Isaiah. And I will now begin to completely and utterly destroy this entire argument making it 100% non credible.
"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers…"
(Isaiah 40:22).
You're arguing with what is only an interpretation of the original hebrew text. The exact translation of the hebrew word gh in Isaiah 40:22 is "circle" as can be seen above. "Circle" in this context was then interpreted to mean "Sphere", and so was born a claim that the bible stated the world was round. Round? In this passage yes. A sphere? No. There is a much better Hebrew word for sphere that has been used in another passage from Isaiah.
"He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house."
(Isaiah 22:18).
The hebrew word rwd in this passage is roughly translated as "ball" and/or "sphere" however this word was not used in Isaiah 40:22, the word for circle was. Furthermore if we interpret the word gh (circle) as "sphere" in every passage of the hebrew text, as it was interpreted in Isaiah 40:22, it would result in awkward translations. Thus leading me to believe that according to this specific passage, the bible did claim the world was round, as a circle, but never as a sphere. You aren't convinced yet that this argument you presented is complete bullshit are you? It's ok because I'm not done yet . I actually have some very interesting passages that thanks to you I remembered (one of which coming from the book of Isaiah, the same book that apparently you claim states the world was round). I think you'll enjoy them.
"He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH."
(Isaiah 11:12)

"After this I saw four angels standing at the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree."
(Revelation 7:1)

"that it might take the EARTH BY THE EDGES and shake the wicked out of it?"
(Job 38:13)

"O LORD, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in time of distress, to you the nations will come from the ENDS OF EARTH and say, "Our fathers possessed nothing but false gods, worthless idols that did them no good."
(Jeremiah 16:19)

"Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line ACROSS it?"
(Job 38:44) ^^ Shouldn't that state "who stretched a measuring line AROUND it"? I mean, it should if the bible says the world is a sphere. But then again it doesn't really ever say that does it?

^^ I don't think I need to tell you what shape edges and four corners describes. I think you're slowly starting to regret ever mentioning that the bible said the world was round. The mistake you made was thinking I wasn't educated as much as or possibly even more then you yourself are in the bible. The fact I have read it in Hebrew doesn't help you either. You see, you do not argue with fact. You argue with an incorrect interpretation. An interpretation of a passage that was interpreted incorrectly to mean "sphere" ONLY after the world was proved spherical by Columbus. You say that men thought the world was flat? You seem to be forgetting that these men were also men of the church. And the bible, along with the passage you claim states the world was round (Isaiah 40:22) were both present at this time. Yet it is clear that at this particular moment of history, this passage was not interpreted as a claim that the world was round as it is interpreted now, thus being the reason that the church at this time still believed the world to be flat despite this one, single, sole bible passage in particular. Such is also why the Church denied claims by scientists such as Copernicus and Galileo and even had Galileo placed on house arrest for concpiracy of heresy. Anyways I really don't know what the deal was with people back then thinking the world was flat... I mean... All they had to do was look at the sun or the moon and see those are round and figure it out for themselves... Mesopotamians figured it out before the bible existed. They also knew about planetary rotation but apparently the bible didn't.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved."
(Psalm 104:5) Wtf do they mean by foundations anyways? Fishy.

"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved."
(Psalm 93:1)

^^ So now not only does the bible claim that the world is either a circle (only according to one specific passage) or a square, it also claims that the world doesn't move? Move like, 24 hours to rotate in a complete spin? Or move like... 365 days to revolve around the sun? Wait, it gets worse.

"Also, the sun rises and the sun sets; And hastening to its place it rises there again."
(Ecclesiastes 1:5)

^^ So now the bible claims that the world is either a circle or square, doesn't move, and that it's infact the sun that moves. Just like how the church used to believe that it was the sun that revolved around the earth until Columbus made his voyage? I don't get it. Where does it go when it sets? Into some spacial black hole? Then pops back up when it's ready? Wait, it gets worse.

"The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ENDS OF EARTH."
(Daniel 4:11)

Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
(Mathew 4:8)

^^ Again with the ends of earth. Anyways ok so if astronomical bodies are spherical then we know now that you wouldn't be able to see the entire exterior surface of the earth from any place on earth, so these passages would not be possible unless the bible were claiming that the world was flat... Which still doesn't make sense because even if the world was flat and you climbed a giant mountain, the human eye could only percieve to a certain distance. And for the record the kingdoms of this point in history - Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms were widely distributed all across the earth.

Mentioning that the bible claimed that the world was round doesn't seem like it was such a clever idea anymore does it?


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Old 02-23-11, 09:13 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabatos
You said "No other mainstream religion preaches peace and equality. And that's why you fight and fight and fight, and kill and kill and kill."

Do you realize that Christians are the ones being killed? Christians are the ones being persecuted? Christianity is the one religion that is persecuted more than any other religion in the world? Christians don't persecute, but are the persecuted. You said something about the crusades in the later post, I will get back to that later after I reply to this.
Christians don't persecute? You mean like the President of the USA sending troops to Iraq to kill them for their oil and using 9/11 as a propaganda tool to fuel the mission? Yea, deffo not persecution. Actually after 9/11 muslims became the second most persecuted and most hated religion in the world outside of muslim countries. Jews still obviously being the most hated and persecuted as they always have been throughout history. That's why everyone makes conspiracy theories about them running the world. That's why when someone wants to insult you they call you a Jew-bag. That's why when you act cheap in a certain scenario you get called a cheap Jew. That's why World War 2 happened. That's why guys on this site like Baphomet rocked a swaztika in their avatar and claimed Israel should just be nuked into ruble. I've never heard anyone get called a Christ-bag as an insult before, have you? But back to Christians vs. Muslims... who invaded who's country first? Christians are being killed? Uhm you're killing eachother actually. Your Christian president decided he wanted a war remember? I never said you don't get persecuted anyways. You do, but deff not as much as muslims and Jews, you're like a far away 3rd. Regardless that has nothing to do with that I said.. Your religion doesn't preach equality because they think they're the only ones who go to heaven and no one else does. That pretty much says it all right there. I'd say Taoism preaches peace. I'd say Buddhism preaches peace (I don't consider these mainstream). I wouldn't say Christianity preaches peace as they have been seen fighting in massive wars and doing terrible things to people throughout history since the religion was first established

"And like I said, it doesn't make sense that a God with a power and intellect strong enough to create a universe, would be so non-understanding like that. Yes everyone of us are sinners, did everyone one of us murder, rape and kill though? No. So just because we all have sinned, don't ever compare me to those types of people and try to claim we're all just one giant group of sinners like there's no difference between us. There's a big difference, I'm a good person, they're all pieces of shit and the scum of society, and if you ever try to compare me to them and say we are similar, you're going to make me a really angry person, and you already did."

Its interesting you say that, because it doesnt make sense how a God with so much power, with such great a mind, speaking through such a simple Gospel, and yet so many dont understand it. You say, they murdered, but I didnt? You lied right? I bet you prolly stole one thing in your life, even as small as a pen accidently? Have you ever looked at a women with lust? Have you ever used God's name in vain? Sure you did. So you broke a couple of commandments right there.
I stole bigger shit purposely. You're comparing stealing a pen, checking out a sexy girl, and saying "God damn it" to raping a little girl and then slitting her throat and canibalising her remains? Uh ok, you're kinda creepy. That's exactly what you're doing. You're comparing stealing a pen to murdering a person and saying either or you still broke a commandment like it's just as bad. If you believe they're both just as bad, let me ask you one question that I will answer for you. Would you rather somebody steals your moms pen, or would you rather they rape and kill her? You'd rather they steal her pen.

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." - James 2:10
You break one of them, you break all of them. Thats why we need Jesus. He knew no one can be good enough to go to heaven. No one is perfect, only He was. I'm sure not, no one else is.

And I'm not comparing you to anyone, we are all accountable for our own decisions.
And I have no problem being held accountable for checking out a latina as she walks down the street in short shorts because I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I do however think that if I decided to rape and then kill that particular latina, that would be wrong

But I like the fact you said "I'm a good person." But like i said earlier, you've lied right? You've prolly cheated on a test, talked crap about your mom behind her back? You prolly stole, you prolly hated someone like you hate me. You prolly hurt a few people emotionally and physically? So does that make you a good person? Oh well maybe you've changed?
I never said I hate you? I don't even know you. I just thought you were really un-cool for calling my ancestors fools. And I never talked shit about my mom behind her back once in my entire life. Why the fuck would I do that? Fuck you for even asuming that lmao wtf?

Well if I killed someone 10 years ago, and got caught just now. Is it okay for me to tell the Judge whos trying to sentence me, "I changed, im a good person now, im not the same." No! We are all accountable for what we do. But with Jesus who died on the cross, he paid for our sins, so we dont have to be judged.
Yup cuz it's a fine line between stealing a pen and using that pen to stab someone in the neck repeatedly until they die.

Okay thats a reply to your 1st paragraph.

Now, your getting mad at me because of what the Bible said. Not what I said. Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me." So we know you can't go to heaven unless you have Him. But! He also said, we must preach the gospel to the world, so everyone may have a chance to go to Heaven. Jesus knew without the gospel being preaching of Him, you cant go to heaven. Thats why a Christians priority in life is to preach the Gospel, to share the forgiveness of Christ for our Sins. So no, hes not a messed up God that doesn't care, He uses humans to preach His message, and its our laziness that causes so many to not hear the Gospel. So no God isn't a bad parent, and I never called him a bad Father. Oh and God isn't inside everything. He created everything but He isnt inside everything. Hes not in your pc, hes not in your phone, hes not in your blanket, but He's here. People love to worship what God created instead of the Creator. But I think its funny you dont think you were made in the image of God, what were you made in the image of? But I hope that answers your question on the 2nd paragraph.
It doesn't. No one ever preached the bible to those tribal people. No one ever will. So I guess they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time and that's too bad for them and now they're gonna burn in hell for it. Pretty brutal.

Now, I am not saying people are horrible people. But no one is made good by what they do. We have all messed up, we have all done wrong and offended God in one way or another. There are very intelligent people in this world, without ppl like them, we wouldnt have internet, or technology like we do now. And yes we do mess up this world, thats because we are stupid. We are fools, we do stupid things. But what does that have to do with God? God made us, he gave us freewill. He doesnt force us to do things, he allows us to make choices. Which is choose Him or not.
The technology that pollutes and destroys our environment that God created for us? The environment that the Natives used their free-will to respect and never destroy? I think we'd all have been much better off without technology actually, so thanks but no thanks.

And btw, I never dissed your "ancestors." I never dissed them, you are putting words in my mouth now.

You said,

"Your christians claiming to be all holy and respectful of God came into OUR land and started destroying it and when we tried to fight back you exploited us and killed us, though the bible says thou shalt not kill."


One, they are not my Christians, Two, I'm sorry for the people that came and did that. But who said they were all Christians in the first place? Yes, people came to america to find new land. British came to america, so did the french, spain, many different countries wanted to come to america. And they would have done the same thing. Not just Christians.

I never called your ancestors fools. Did you know that verse was directing to the greeks? But it applies to everyone, you, me, everyone else in the entirety of the world who denies the real God. Period.
Apparently it doesn't apply to you cuz you're better then everybody else.

Oh and the people God used to write the Bible, just to let you know, they were not white. And to my asian land, I was born in america no where else. And I'm glad some white guy, and spanish guy, and even an indian came to the Philippines to preach the Gospel. Thanks. And btw, ppl holding the bible did kill my people. We were enslaved for 200 years by the spanish, but they were not Christian. They claimed to be Christian but were not. So yes they killed millions of Filipinos.
Yup you're glad white men came but your ancestors sure weren't.


I'm not gonna do this again btw
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