Can you prove there is no middle class? The last time I checked, according to you, there WAS a middle class, which means you're making a claim that now there isn't. You're making the claim, which means the burden of proof is on you. It's not up to me to disprove every wild and asinine claim that comes out of Lou Dobb's retarded ass show.

thats a horrible statement bro....Mccain agree'd...just like the other 98 percent of the senate/congress. You can't single out one dude.....


Mccain was indpedent in 2000 anyways, so if anything...he was a much stronger canidate back then...than before he joined the Republican party.

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ROFL...i dont watch Lou Dobb's


I was just tryin to make the point that the middle class is shirnking....and if anything. It will be the downfall.

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N if you want me to try and prove it, go to your local WIC office...or Food Stamp/Food Bank


the lines are growing...more people are findin it acceptable to live off the state and goverment...why? They aren't middle class anymore...

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I only mentioned Lou Dobbs because I know he wrote a book about how he thinks the middle class is being pulled apart. I don't think it's really a problem right now though.

I don't even know how this shit got pulled in this direction. I said I didn't want to taxes to be raised, then I explained my point, then Mannie comes here rambling some bullshit and now we're here. Hahaha, oh well.

Me looking at people standing in line to get food stamps isn't proof that there's no middle class. It's just proof that people want food stamps. I don't know if more people are cashing in on the government's free ride, though I don't doubt that to be true.

But, how do you explain the high amount of people still living in houses in decent neighborhoods, still working, still paying for their own shit, etc.? I mean, I know a lot of people lost their homes in this foreclosure disaster, but people who knew what they were doing kept their homes, and didn't go into debt. I guess I'm a little unsure about what you're defining as middle class because what I consider middle class still exists today.

lol, n how many of those families do you really know?? Many people have lots n lots of credit card debt. Just because they are holding on, doesn't mean thats it ok...


I remember when i was younger, bein able to go do things....like go to the lake, or take trips...that shit dont happen ne more with alot of kids i know now, due to the fact of higher gas prices/living expenseses.....


although we might not ever agree on who is gonna get into office, or policies or ne thing


can we agree that times are much harder now than before?

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this isn't a solid argument simply because none of us have been around long enough to really see what's going on outside of our little world, through multiple presidencys...i think shit used to be a lot easier..because i would sit and watch cartoons and play outside all day. Now i take classes like political science and international economies...and see that shit isn't as good as it could be. i don't feel like its worse...allthough...in 10 years i'll probably feel like it's better or worse....i can't do that right now.....because i'm too young to have personally experienced the pros and cons of our different states of economy and social welfare

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Time is not long, and indecision is hells cemment. So the well is rented, untill heaven is relevant. Untill then, to be eloquent, sex cells, so le'ts cellibate.

"watch what you watchin...fox keeps feedin' us toxin's..stop sleepin' start thinkin outside of the box and unplug from the matrix doctrine....but watch what you say cause big brother is watchin" - nas - sly fox

The I.H.C.J.S.F.M.T.R.H.P.M.M.W.T.S.M.S.I.T.F.F.W.A.S. O Crew

actually his over 90% agreement with Bush is higher than most of his republican colleagues, so no its not a horrible statement...

and first off mimesis, you cant take a joke u dumb fuck, obviously mimesis is not ur real name, do u think Mannie Fresh is my real name? get real

and if u read correctly, i never said it was Possible to put unemployment at 0%, i was simply making a little jab that its counterintuitive to say unemployment Should be at 5% instead of should be erased or as low as possible... ur over here saying "its good enough if we just get it to a steady 5%"....especially considering in the 90s the unemployment rating had dropped for 7 years straight, and was under 5% for three of those years, including almost hitting 4%.... and btw presently there are over 60 countries with lower unemployment ratings... including a few that Are at 0% last time i checked, although im sure u can argue whatever u want for the reasons they are capable to do it and we are not, being undeveloped and what not... which brings up my point that i dont know what America u live in, but i live in one where u hope one day we can get rid of unemployment, or decrease it to a non-concern, not just throw it to the waistside cuz u feel like its impossible to even get it below 5.

and thank you again for answering any of my actual comments...... u know, i appreciate wen u Say u wanna talk about issues, and then never discuss them... cuz i still dont understand how u think unemployment will go down with no work put towards it... and if u give that same reagan trickle down bullshit just with different wording, than u obviously dont know your history too well

and to Pinky, i didnt Single him out per se, i was simply making the statement that when he agreed that much with a president that took us done the shithole, how can we expect him to be better? how is he a Maverick? how will he be a reformer? because if he had been president those 8 years, by logic, it wouldve turned out over 90% the same way.....

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Cash Money Mill eon air

Fucka Katrina Gustav

[QUOTE=Mannie Fresh]actually his over 90% agreement with Bush is higher than most of his republican colleagues, so no its not a horrible statement...

and first off mimesis, you cant take a joke u dumb fuck, obviously mimesis is not ur real name, do u think Mannie Fresh is my real name? get real

and if u read correctly, i never said it was Possible to put unemployment at 0%, i was simply making a little jab that its counterintuitive to say unemployment Should be at 5% instead of should be erased or as low as possible... ur over here saying "its good enough if we just get it to a steady 5%"....especially considering in the 90s the unemployment rating had dropped for 7 years straight, and was under 5% for three of those years, including almost hitting 4%.... and btw presently there are over 60 countries with lower unemployment ratings... including a few that Are at 0% last time i checked, although im sure u can argue whatever u want for the reasons they are capable to do it and we are not, being undeveloped and what not... which brings up my point that i dont know what America u live in, but i live in one where u hope one day we can get rid of unemployment, or decrease it to a non-concern, not just throw it to the waistside cuz u feel like its impossible to even get it below 5.

and thank you again for answering any of my actual comments...... u know, i appreciate wen u Say u wanna talk about issues, and then never discuss them... cuz i still dont understand how u think unemployment will go down with no work put towards it... and if u give that same reagan trickle down bullshit just with different wording, than u obviously dont know your history too well

and to Pinky, i didnt Single him out per se, i was simply making the statement that when he agreed that much with a president that took us done the shithole, how can we expect him to be better? how is he a Maverick? how will he be a reformer? because if he had been president those 8 years, by logic, it wouldve turned out over 90% the same way.....[/QUOTE]


lol, ok first off, bro....i'm a huge Obama supporter...so right on with you, ya dig?


N you obviously did single him out, n tried to make it seem as if he was the only one who agree'd with Bush. Hell, everybody agree'd with Bush....i did, i thought goin to war was the right thing to do.

David Letterman said it best, that America felt like it NEEDED to do something in retaliation. Kinda of like, if a guy push's you...n you don't push back, but if someone told you that he also fucked your g/f, than you'd fight back.

I feel like Mccain, could have been a great president. He was on the right path in 2000....but after alinging with the Republican party, for whatever reason he did....i feel as if thats when he became less of a Maverick and more of a Motherfucker.

People can call Mccain some war hero, which ...i suppose he was, but really...he was more or a less a POW that came home. End of story. He aint Patton. He aint some great general...those motherfuckers were hero's...not some POW who got his story published.

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Mimesis, it kind of seems like you're voting McCain over Obama because of one issue. And even then, the people who do get to earn extremely large sums of money SHOULD be taxed more, because they are living the "American dream".

Living in this country allowed them to reach those heights, so it's only right they pay it back in the end. If someone makes a million dollars and half of it gets taxed.....they are still fucking rich. If half of that being taxed means that underprivileged people can have more opportunities to reach heights similar to those being taxed, I don't see why that's a bad thing. It's like if your mom raised you to be a good kid and always made sure you had the best opportunities possible, and then she got old and needed help, wouldn't it be right to make sure the people who made it possible get something back?

Yes, there are those who take advantage of the system, I see it every day at work when people with food stamps buy $100 in junk food and every time financial aid checks come out and people I know go out and buy Jordans and new rims for their car. But at the same time, there are people out there, including me, who if it weren't for the extra opportunities given, wouldn't be able to do anything but work 2 jobs to barely make ends meet. To put that into perspective as well, it's not like because there are girls out there who will cheat on you and use you, that means that ALL of them do. When you start acting like that, resentment gets built up on both sides and nobody goes anywhere. Get me?

Just my 2 cents.

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Soundclick

I'm voting for McCain for a few reasons. The strongest belief I have in this election is that taxes shouldn't be as high as Obama wants to make them. I'm a firm believer in capitalism, and Obama's tax policies are coming close to bordering socialist. If Obama said he wouldn't raise taxes to outrageous levels I'd definitely consider voting for him.

Dude, I already explained this on the second page. I'm not talking about the top 1-3% of this population in terms of income. I'm talking about middle class people. Of course if you're making $50 million a year and the government takes half you should still be fine (though that's not always the case, but if you can't manage yourself with that much money, you're pretty much an idiot), but that's not the income bracket I'm talking about or arguing for.

I don't believe if you work hard to open a business or do something innovative that you should be required to give back half of your income. If you're already creating jobs and generating capital, doesn't that provide the "American dream" to other people? If I open a successful business and hire you, aren't you better off then if I hadn't opened a business and hadn't hired you? What's a person's motivation to put in the required work to open a business or do something innovative, create jobs, and generate capital if the government is going to take away half of it and give it to people who don't necessarily deserve it? That's why socialism will always fail. There's no motivation to work hard.

Your analogy about a person's mom isn't accurate and doesn't sum up this situation. I'd present a counter analogy but I can't think of one that covers everything I'm saying. It's just your analogy fails to factor in the good people who start businesses are already doing, both for the economy and for other people. It's not like the country gave me a bunch of opportunities and I turned that into a good thing for just me. The people who I'm talking about have given back to the country and continue to give back to the country everyday (via jobs, goods and services, taxes that they're already required to pay, etc.).

I get what you're saying and I respect the hell out of you for doing what you're doing, and I wish you the best of luck. I just can't support raising taxes very high, and that's the main reason I'm not voting for Obama.

i agree with most of this and i do think the obama hype is bigger then his actual ideas but.......................if mccain goes into office he will keep this ar going ad most likely attack iran who will bomb isreal to gt back at us since they are our closest frends in the area.taxes will still go up because the war wll cotinue regardless and the country will fall furtherand further into debt.taxes wilbe bad eithr way.i'll take the taxes with obama and no war over war AND taxes ith mccain.

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That was the worst attempt at a cause and effect argument I've ever read.

He will "most likely" attack Iran, who will "most likely" attack Israel, and then that will "most likely" lead to taxes being raised, and that will "most likely" drive us further into debt?

Seriously?