religion is only used in government when it can benefit them....example...george bush doesn't want gays to marry because it goes against the church.....................................truth is, he just doesnt agree.and i don't either..but i don't like the reason he chooses to explain his case

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Time is not long, and indecision is hells cemment. So the well is rented, untill heaven is relevant. Untill then, to be eloquent, sex cells, so le'ts cellibate.

"watch what you watchin...fox keeps feedin' us toxin's..stop sleepin' start thinkin outside of the box and unplug from the matrix doctrine....but watch what you say cause big brother is watchin" - nas - sly fox

The I.H.C.J.S.F.M.T.R.H.P.M.M.W.T.S.M.S.I.T.F.F.W.A.S. O Crew

Truth is, its stupid to mix the church and the government.

They tried it, and it resulted in total disaster.

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The Bible to me seems like something used back then to get people to not kill themselves or be killers, because if you plan on killing people then yourself, you have nothing to lose. With the Bible, you get tortured forever and ever if you kill someone or yourself.

Christians can be incredibly dense sometimes. If they tried to force me to pray, I'd fucking sue my school. I'm not necessarily an atheist, but the idea of the christian God does not apply to my beliefs. I think it's kind of sad how people survive cancer or something and they say it was a miracle from God, but they can't understand it was THEM who gave them the strength to live on. They don't see that they were the ones who survived something, not because they prayed, but because they had the will to survive. Religion has its pros and cons --- cons namely being the Crusades and Spanish Inquisitions, and the pros being that people are scared shitless to sin or else they burn forever.

Seriously, if Christians forced our schools to pray, I would be pissed as fuck. I can handle doing the Pledge of Allegiance, that's me honoring the people who have ensured that our country survives, and their bravery is the foundation of America. Sadly, the brave mostly died in events like the Civil War, which showed people 'America will do anything to protect itself', but then a good deal of the people who had a sense of honor were killed.

The world is sad. - emo. -

murder does not land you in hell, suicide does because it's the one sin that cannot honestly repent for. Your argument lacks substance, because your making it sound like if someone survives cancer, unless God tangibly speaks to someone, and tells them to do something specific to survive, than that means it has nothing to do with God, Yes people have the will to survive, but Intuitive being could very well be an instinct granted to a select few as a gift from God. Some people have the will to survive, and some don't...God doesn't save you just because you pray, if you survive because suddenly you have the will to survive, is it possible that assuming that God exists, that he instilled that will to live in you? or whoever it is that is trying to survive? yeah, it is.
And true believers are not afraid to sin, becauyse they know they are human, and they will inevitably sin, and thanks to the new testemant...we can ask for forgiveness, and as long as it's genuwine...God cannot deny us, thats what jesus died on the cross for.

And the civil war? The civil war was not to protect our country, if the south would have won, we'd still be America, that was not an issue of us being invaded, it was an issue of fighting eachother, thats more destructive than positive. Yes we're all glad it happened...because slavery is over, but realisitcally, the civil war is not something i look back on and say, "thankyou soldiers" because just as many american soldiers who were fighting for slavery, died in that war. I understand where your coming from on your points of view, but you need to do a little homework, and think a little bit deeper about things

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Time is not long, and indecision is hells cemment. So the well is rented, untill heaven is relevant. Untill then, to be eloquent, sex cells, so le'ts cellibate.

"watch what you watchin...fox keeps feedin' us toxin's..stop sleepin' start thinkin outside of the box and unplug from the matrix doctrine....but watch what you say cause big brother is watchin" - nas - sly fox

The I.H.C.J.S.F.M.T.R.H.P.M.M.W.T.S.M.S.I.T.F.F.W.A.S. O Crew

Wow, you dont' seem to understand a thing I said. I don't believe that God, if he exists, gives anyone the will to survive. My argument is based off the fact people think that God allows them to live when they are the ones who have the power.

Also, I know what the civil war was about, don't act like I'm a moron. I said IT WAS THAT IT KILLED OFF A GOOD DEAL OF THE BRAVE PEOPLE. Did I say anything about the winners losing more brave people than the others? No. How about you learn to read before saying that I don't know what I'm talking about?

I don't rant about what I don't know about, if that's what you're trying to say. I know most of the major battles, the advantages and disadvantages, capitals, presidents on both sides, a large number of nicknames, etcetra...I don't debate about things I don't know, pal. I know about sins and all that, things created back then to instill fear into people who thought they could find peace in death, and how people can repent and whatnot. Don't try to call me ignorant unless it's actual ignorance I'm showing and not what you believe is ignorance. I'm thinking a lot deeper than you most likely, because pretty much the only christian defense is 'God works in mysterious ways' and 'logic is a thing used to destroy your faith, and it's all a test'. Maybe you're not thinking deep enough to find the evident flaws of the christian religion? Do you not realize how much harm christianity has done, anyway?

Really, I am beyond tired of christians with 'unshakable faith'.

lmao, this is funny..because you claim i didn't understand what you said, when yet i showed complete 100% understanding, and had the ability to shoot it down.

here we go again, i really hate repeating myself..

people have power to do lot's of things....if someone survives cancer, it is not a miracle that they survived, it is a miracle that they had the will to survive, because it's the rareness of having such a tremendous will to live to beat a thing like cancer, that makes it infact a miracle. Such a determined mindset, could be a gift from a greater being, or divine being. That cannot even be argued against.

And i will act like your a moron, if your going to act like one. Your example of Americas foundation was possibly the worst one. The civil war is an example of how we're willing to kill over difference of belief, even if it's eachother we're killing. The people in the north were not fighting for eqaullity, they were fighting to free the slaves, for there own selfish purposes. 95% of the north agreed with the south on one thing, and that was that blacks were lesser beings than whites. The north had there own selfish agenda in freeing the slaves. The idea behind ending slavery had a big role in the taxation of our appearance as humanitarians..and the idea that you could not put a tax on human life, and getting benefits for free, hurt the economy more than anything. Money and economy is about circulation, if you contribue nothing, and have people work for free, at the same time..using resources...your hurting the economy....don't tell me to fucking read before i say anything, i read what you said, it was completely uneducated, and had no substance what so ever.

And you are extremely ignorant, straight up...because i'm not a christian, i'm just extremely educated, and know what I'm talking about...and sins were not created to instill fear, they were created to keep order, the idea of a sin was INSTILLED with the emotion of FEAR, but it's purpose was to keep order and peace. I'm far from a christian, I belive in a God, not The God....and the idea of religion is abstract, and you say it's saikd Logic is used to destroy faith, when profound logic, is infact, the ability to explain and understand things we know as abstract...so you see, there synonomous.......all I have to say to destroy someones "unshakeable faith" is this..."if you believe God's power is infinite, than explain to me why he can't make a boulder, too big for him to move....because if he can make such a boulder, than obviously his strength is not infinite, and if his strength is infinite, than it'd be impossible to create a boulder big enough, because no matter what..he can lift it."

there are a million flaws of the christian religion, and i bet i know about 999,999 more than you do...and every religion has caused harm...because every religion is used as a bragging right, and a means to seperate them from the rest of the world, religion isn't a way of life for most, it is a way to say.."fuck you, i'm better, because your not a christian"....and thats not what it was meant to be like....you think your deep, because you've discovered contradictions in the bible, that disproves most christians theories...trust me, thats not deep, thats called reading comprehension....and i hate to break it to you, but that makes your thought process average...your ignorance will only be proven by disagreeing with everything i've said, because if you don't get it yet..your mind is not near as open as you would like to think it is

__________________

Time is not long, and indecision is hells cemment. So the well is rented, untill heaven is relevant. Untill then, to be eloquent, sex cells, so le'ts cellibate.

"watch what you watchin...fox keeps feedin' us toxin's..stop sleepin' start thinkin outside of the box and unplug from the matrix doctrine....but watch what you say cause big brother is watchin" - nas - sly fox

The I.H.C.J.S.F.M.T.R.H.P.M.M.W.T.S.M.S.I.T.F.F.W.A.S. O Crew

Let me address what I did say.

1.) They say the civil war showed America had the will to defend itself and that the citizens would do anything to insure such, but then the ones who ended up being hte bravest died. Let's look over what I said:

Sadly, the brave mostly died in events like the Civil War, which showed people 'America will do anything to protect itself', but then a good deal of the people who had a sense of honor were killed.

Notice how I don't mention slavery whatsoever, or blacks at all. Tell me where I said anything about the economy. Tell me where I said anything about the 99% of that bullshit you were rambling about. Putting words in my mouth. I said their bravery, like the bravery of others, is the foundation that supported America, and I was using it as an example. Not the best example, I could've used the Revolution, but it doesn't fucking matter. I also said people who had a sense of honor and bravery were killed when being brave, trying to be heroes and whatnot. Does that relate to

The civil war is an example of how we're willing to kill over difference of belief, even if it's eachother we're killing. The people in the north were not fighting for eqaullity, they were fighting to free the slaves, for there own selfish purposes. 95% of the north agreed with the south on one thing, and that was that blacks were lesser beings than whites. The north had there own selfish agenda in freeing the slaves. The idea behind ending slavery had a big role in the taxation of our appearance as humanitarians..and the idea that you could not put a tax on human life, and getting benefits for free, hurt the economy more than anything. Money and economy is about circulation, if you contribue nothing, and have people work for free, at the same time..using resources...your hurting the economy....don't tell me to fucking read before i say anything, i read what you said, it was completely uneducated, and had no substance what so ever.

At all? Was I talking about the people who were the ones in higher power that made the Civil War occur? I was talking about the people who fought in it because of their nationalism and honor, not about the provoking and all of that associated with the people who didn't actually fight the battles. What a waste of you type a paragraph that does not relate to this.


2.) It is arguable that there was divine intervention that helped them survive. Saying that having the will to survive is from divine intervention is stupid. Miracles occur, and not all miracles come from a higher being.

3.) And you are extremely ignorant, straight up...because i'm not a christian, i'm just extremely educated, and know what I'm talking about...and sins were not created to instill fear, they were created to keep order, the idea of a sin was INSTILLED with the emotion of FEAR, but it's purpose was to keep order and peace.

This goes hand in hand with what I said. They instilled fear to keep order and peace. Saying 'they were made to instill fear' means basically to bend people's will, which would bend them to maintaining order and peace. Basically, what I've quoted here is you saying things not related or just saying the same thing I did.

4.) there are a million flaws of the christian religion, and i bet i know about 999,999 more than you do...and every religion has caused harm...
Which would mean I know one...which is retarded for you to say. And no, you don't know much more than I do.

because every religion is used as a bragging right, and a means to seperate them from the rest of the world, religion isn't a way of life for most, it is a way to say.."fuck you, i'm better, because your not a christian"....and thats not what it was meant to be like....
...I don't recall ever mentioning anything at all about it NOT being a bragging right...what the fuck are you talking about?

you think your deep, because you've discovered contradictions in the bible, that disproves most christians theories...trust me, thats not deep, thats called reading comprehension....
I have reading comprehension, but guess what, this is one of the things that I know about...that's like me saying 'well, you're pretty smart' when you score good on a science test. Once you've read through all my memories, you can tell me how deep I am.

and i hate to break it to you, but that makes your thought process average...your ignorance will only be proven by disagreeing with everything i've said, because if you don't get it yet..your mind is not near as open as you would like to think it is
And I hate to break it to you, but basically what you've been saying has nothing to do with what I've said, it's based off something we can prove right or wrong(ie. God), or is you sitting there probing an example and going off on some new direction(slavery) that I wasn't talking about.

5.) all I have to say to destroy someones "unshakeable faith" is this..."if you believe God's power is infinite, than explain to me why he can't make a boulder, too big for him to move....because if he can make such a boulder, than obviously his strength is not infinite, and if his strength is infinite, than it'd be impossible to create a boulder big enough, because no matter what..he can lift it."
...Thanks for the insightful view on how to discourage faith. A lot of people with unshakable faith tend to be idiots anyway, and I've tried different methods than that to explain to people why having a fundamentalist view is retarded.


I have also mentioned several times throughout different threads I believe in a higher being that is not the christian God, so we're on the same level as that.

And I hate repeating myself as well. Let's end it on the notes that:

1.) slavery is bad.
2.) christianity has a lot of fuckups.
3.) miracles are not necessarily from a divine being.
4.) some other shit.

Man, debates are such a big fucking waste of time...

your an idiot bro....your point your trying to prove is that, america is willing to defend itself.....by stating those facts, i was showing you how stupid you really are......the civil war was between america..and america....so to show that america is willing to defend itself against it self, is pointless, and contradicts everything you say......what honor and bravery were we fighting for? the only ones who had a sense of honor, was actually the south..because they were fighting to keep there way of life, which was turned into the southern american culture, bravery is not a positve trait..our country is not founded on bravery, it is founded on certain principles...you fucking tell me how brave someone is, when they run through the front lines, but have nothing to live for? Not to mention the fact, that bravery is irrelevant....because anyone on either side of the war, if they have something to live for, they are being brave..if we went to war with china, china would be just as brave as us....america prides itself on being an individual country, that sponsors freedom...it always has....not bravery...every country considers themselves brave...and everything i've said, DIRECTLY relates to everything you said....you just fail to make the connection..because all you see is a bunch of information you never knew, and you immediately assume that because you didn't know it..it must not be relevant....and once again...you've proved how stupid you are..i never once said all miracles come from a higher being.....i said the possibility that some miracles come from a higher being is not arguable....THE POSSIBILITY....don't ever fucking tell me to learn to read, when you obviously can't.....and no, what i said about the purpose of sins, is a lot different than what you said....motives cannot be confused, the worlds actions are justified, and shot down because of motives....so it was extremely relevant...you just don't get it, and are trying to talk your way out of a situation you have no control over, because you are being outsmarted 10 fold...


and yes, it would mean you only know one..which isn't retarded of me to say, because every assumption you've said..you've had nothing to use for it's backbone....you've stated opinions..that could be universally known, but have had nothing to support it with...accept for the main issue...and when it comes to religion...and just about everything else, i know much more than you, i can tell by the way your arguing....your arguing about points,because you fail to make the connections...and don't fucking flatter yourself....I'm hear to let you know...because obviously nobody told you...everything i say does not have to be an argument with you, it can simply be a point to reitterate earlier statements...because you obviously don't get it the first time around...you don't need to say that every religion is not used for bragging rights, i don't need to assume you think that...it was used as a tool to add substance to previous points..something that you have yet to do...and once i've read through your memories? deep describes the depth you are capable of taking different subject matter, and making sense out of it....it has nothing to do with memories...what happened to you in 4th grade, would not tell me anything about your ability to be deep, or your intuitive ability....and i can tell you how deep you are just by talking to you...you've failed to see both sides....i've seen both sides...i saw both sides when i was 10 years younger, and i have factual reason and logical reason to disagree completely...and you've proven to me, you know hardly anything about the christian religion, or religion in general............and i covered everything you said, and expanded on it....thats the backbone of being deep, being able to expand....you prove my point once again....and debates are not a waist of time, whats a waist of time...is when you debate with someone who refuses to see anything from their own point of view, and you've done that....without question....and people who are REALLY faithful to christianity, are some of the most enlightened cats i know....unshakeable faith....is being able to stay faithful, regardless of what undeniable logic tells youit's choosing to believe something, when you know it makes no sense what so ever....faith isn't meant to be convenient...people who believe just to believe..the ones who have no logic...are the same ones who say...fuck you..i'm better than you

__________________

Time is not long, and indecision is hells cemment. So the well is rented, untill heaven is relevant. Untill then, to be eloquent, sex cells, so le'ts cellibate.

"watch what you watchin...fox keeps feedin' us toxin's..stop sleepin' start thinkin outside of the box and unplug from the matrix doctrine....but watch what you say cause big brother is watchin" - nas - sly fox

The I.H.C.J.S.F.M.T.R.H.P.M.M.W.T.S.M.S.I.T.F.F.W.A.S. O Crew

i aint readin all that shit y'all be typin, no sir...

but....

referring to the title of this thread

''has america become a godless society?''

lets see, yo...

if god gave us ''life''...and ''light''....then surely he could give a holla to let us know he actually gives a fuck.
haha

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..I Smoke..A Large Portion Of Cheeba...My Gun Games Sick...Like A Cough And A...Fever

Okay, first off, you are still fucking talking about the civil war. Some poeple said it was a way to show Americans would fight to the death to preserve their rights. You're going to be brave if you fight for your country and do heroic deeds. The point I was showing is right here:



Note I said events like the Civil War, which is basically meaning a war like the Revolution, where people fought to protect their rights. Also note where I said 'a good deal of people who had a sense of honor were killed', meaning that people with the honor to fight for what they believed in were killed. Does that have anything to do with slavery or why they were fighting? I wasn't asking you to expand on a statement like saying why I am proud to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

You can say I'm deep and ignorant all you want just because I'm not going into long details about things said in passing like what I was talking about with the American Civil War and a brief explanation of why I can say it without complaint. Does me not going into the reasons for the Civil War mean that I don't know about the Civil War and means I'm not 'deep' when it comes to it?


Seriously, you're getting annoying once you assume that I'm talking about what I don't know. I know what the fucking civil war was about, and the statement

most means either that I know nothing about the Civil War or religion. For one, I know plenty about the Civil War, I don't need a lecture about it. As for religion, I know enough of it to question it, I never claimed to hold a monopoly over religious knowledge.

I'm looking to try and see your point, and some of it makes sense, but for one, the civil war thing is expounding on what I said about why I don't feel forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance.

When I said you can measure how deep I am means if you have looked through my memories, you can see where I've expanded on certain ideas and former debates you haven't seen. I feel no need to have to talk about the civil war and the reasons behind it. You can see how deep I am by watching me talking to you, but you couldn't figure that out precisely by looking through memories of my past to see other times I've debated?

Unless you haven't noticed, the topic is 'has America become a godless society', and I don't have to list reasons about why I dislike certain aspects of religion. I know you probably know more about religion than me, I'd like to see you quote me where I've said that you don't. When someone asks the name of your parents, do you also tell them the name of your grandparents and the rest of your pedigree?

all your doing by responding, is showing how much you really don't understand things...you say some people say "the civil war showed how americans would fight to preserve our rights" thats a joke...it wasn't about that....the only who's rights were on the line..were the blacks..and they wern't american citizens...and the civil war was not an example of americans fighting for there country...because no matter who wins..it's still our country....thats the whole fucking point you slap dick.....no one was fighting to keep america intact, or to keep it from the clutches of another country....no matter who won that war...we'd still be america......than you say that people with bravery died for what they believed in...and proceed to ask me if slavery or why they were fighting has anything to do with that......YOU JUST CONTRADICTED YOURSELF.....why they were fighting...has everything to do with what they believed in...hence the word...WHY...as in...THE REASON...you don't need to ask me to do anything..this isn't about you..the world doesn't work on statement and simple response...and yes, it does mean your not deep, because what your saying is not thought out, and it's completely redundant to the point your trying to get across......if you truly did know anything about the civil war, you would have been intelligent enough to pick a better example...because the civil war is the worst example possible...because it doesn't show by any means..that we are willing to fight for our country...because it wasn't a fight for our country...it was a fight within our country...and being as how religion has so many flaws, you don't need to know shit to be able to question it...that was my point before...and it doesn't matter what you've debated...and what you've expanded on in the past.....that doesn't have any relevance to how deep you are.....that would only be relevant to how much more deep you've become, in comparison to your earlier self..unfortunately for you and your argument...that doesn't mean shit to how deep you are right now......speaking on literall terms of being deep..if you start at 1 foot down in the ocean, and you go to 20 feet....you've expanded your depth 20 times..which is a lot...but being as how thats only a minute fraction of how deep the ocean goes..that doesn't mean shit to how deep you are on a general scale...aka....you might have expanded 100 times where you once were, but that doesn't mean your on any kind of impressive level of depth and understanding....and if someone asks me a simple question, i give them a simple answer, but if someone is going to ask a simple question, and than debate my answer, i will go into what is obviously necessary to prove why they are wrong....and i've done that 100 times so far...which just all the more proves your ignorance....however, you admitting you've seen my points of view some of the time shows me your not too ignorant, because your able to understand..however...unless you agree with everything...theres still ignorance there..because this is black and white...no grey area...all i said was your argument lacked substance...and i've proven that a million times

__________________

Time is not long, and indecision is hells cemment. So the well is rented, untill heaven is relevant. Untill then, to be eloquent, sex cells, so le'ts cellibate.

"watch what you watchin...fox keeps feedin' us toxin's..stop sleepin' start thinkin outside of the box and unplug from the matrix doctrine....but watch what you say cause big brother is watchin" - nas - sly fox

The I.H.C.J.S.F.M.T.R.H.P.M.M.W.T.S.M.S.I.T.F.F.W.A.S. O Crew

The civil war started off to preserve the union, and if the South had one America would not still be America, but the Union and the Confederate States of America. It wasn't considered to be for black rights until later on. Want me to pull up the facts where it says that the civil war was made to keep the country intact, and the South was fighting for their freedom while the North was fighting to spread their way of life. Is that enough substance for you? The Emancipation Proclamation wasn't made until around what, 1862 or 1863? If not just so that blacks could enlist into the army and the anti-slave countries in Europe wouldn't send in their navy forces to annihilate the blockade the Union set up? At that time, the Deep South was an independent country, the Confederate States of America, and they had their own president and constitution. So, yes, they were fighting to protect their OWN country, and the North was invading them, and then the South began invading as well. So, you can't say that was not a time that showed how we will fight for our right and that a lot of brave people fought during that time. Do I need more substance for you? I didn't contradict myself, because the Civil War wasn't entirely about slavery. The entire end of slavery thing was a bribe anyway, giving the South and ultimatum to rejoin the Union or else give upt heir slaves. Maybe next time I'll be incredibly specific with my answers, foreseeing all possible debates in the future...want me to change that to 'the Civil War, before the Emanc. Proc., showed that the americans would do what they could to preserve their own liberty, and that is why I honor them because they were citizens fighting for their country, which was actually not much of a country though it had a president and constitution, so I respect the people who died by showing their bravery in the form of dying for their independence'. Good enough for you?

technically, you are right...but the big picture is...we would still be america, because as a society, we've always been about economics...and we would have eventually figured out, that the souths way of life, was not convenient for economic growth, african americans would have found a way to educate themselves more than they already had been trying to do, the civil war, was over a generation of people...new generations would have had new ideals...and regardless of what someone is taught, open minds are birthed all the time, and open mind is always influenced to the most logical thing. by the way, the north wasn';t trying to spread there way of life..when it comes to ways of life...it was only the south that was involved with that, and they were trying to protect theres...

__________________

Time is not long, and indecision is hells cemment. So the well is rented, untill heaven is relevant. Untill then, to be eloquent, sex cells, so le'ts cellibate.

"watch what you watchin...fox keeps feedin' us toxin's..stop sleepin' start thinkin outside of the box and unplug from the matrix doctrine....but watch what you say cause big brother is watchin" - nas - sly fox

The I.H.C.J.S.F.M.T.R.H.P.M.M.W.T.S.M.S.I.T.F.F.W.A.S. O Crew

The North was technically trying to get rid of the South's way of life with slaves and enforce their own abolitionist ways on the Confederacy, right?