God, come on now. The blackness shit is true, if hip hop is so inclined with other music they would have a billion radio stations that play "hip hop and classical" or "hip hop and death metal". R&b sings of instruments, and so does a bunch of other music, but obviously since both rap and r&b hit an "urban demographic" they're gonna group them together. Obviously this isn't a test of how free my mind is, it's just reflecting on society. They play hip hop and r&b on BET, and never any rock. And why is that? I wonder... And being black I wouldn't be caught dead trying to group my people like that, its just solid truth. ANY other music can use any instrument they want, so can hip hop. But its the choice of genre, you can't just go adding music to other genres because they had an influence. Come on now this isnt a political issue, it's just social.

ok... so how do you classify lauryn hill?.... mary j blige?.... Floetry?... Akon?.... queen latifah? (she sings and raps.. even did a jazz album which i own a copy of).... no one knows what da hell ja-rule or nelly does , so we'll leave them outta this (yeah, they're rappers tryna act like they R&B...lmao)... back to business... how do you classify alicia keyes?... all these folks i just mentioned get down for thiers (except ja and nelly... damn them!!!!) and the music they drop is played in r&b and hip hop circles all over the world.. and i never once said that you couldn't say anything bad about it... if ya don't like it, that's fine... it's your preference... but if you wanna state facts then you can't say shyt like... "they tryna act like rappers"... you have no idea how that particular artist was tryna come across... when they start tryna do whole albums as a rapper you can cross that line... but just cuz they got a guest appearance by an emcee or use hip hop styled beats for the music?... you passing judgements like you was there with the artists themselves...lol... everything i spit in this thread was based on facts... not things that i personally find appealing to the ear... i back up facts with examples and then explain the examples that i use...

show me facts that say r&b and hip hop are tied together by blackness and i'll leave it alone... and before you go there... just think of the many black rap artists that have collabed with white singers (jay-z, tupac, balck eyed peas, eve, method man, lil kim, public enemy, krs-one... just to name a few)

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That's EXACTLY my point. The "urban demographic". Lauren Hill, Alicia Keys, Erica, and all them other people all hit an urban audience. Just like eminem got play on rock stations. Is he rock now? If it wasn't a black and white thing he wouldn't of got play. And if it wasn't a black and white thing, they would play rock on BET and other black radio. All those people you mentioned aren't hip hop, they're just urban. You cannot tell me if mary j was white and lived in a white area and talked about white problems she would be considered hip hop. If that's true what makes kelly clarkson less hip hop than her?

ok... so white folks don't live in urban environments?...lol.. i had plenty of white folks in my urban environment growing up... your comment eludes to the fact that only black folks live in urban areas so that's why they listen to certain music...

i agree with the society comment to an extent... i, personally choose not to listen to the radio too much and i barely watch bet or mtv... i make my own decisions about what music i wanna hear by being aware of the different types of music that's out there... i'm not one that's gonna be easily influenced by some shyt cuz society says that's how it's supposed to be...

as a black guy, you gonna tell me the only music you'd ever listen to is from black folks?... if you heard a hot ass song by a rock group you wouldn't admit that you liked it? if it's all about the music then, like i said previously, if it's good then it's good, no matter what the source is...

again, i understand where ya coming from... but i'm just saying that it's more to it than that

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That's just it, THE URBAN DEMOGRAPHIC. Rap doesn't have to be urban all the time does it? It can be about anything, and white people live in urban areas too right? So what makes mary j hip hop? For collabing with rap artists? Does collabing with linkin park make jayz rock? MAking music that appeals to a hip hop audience doesn't make you hip hop. You're either hip hop or you're not, it's not like some gang you gotta get in. I listen to some rock, it doesn't mean the rock ppl i listen to are hip hop.

then again... you hafta look at the tv station you chose... music as a whole isn't about black or white ... BET is about Black artists and the main reason they did that in the beginning was because MTV would not play black music before Michael Jackson's Thriller album dropped... that's one of the reasons i stopped watching them as much... they play to segregation... i ain't about that... hell, my dj was a white guy from Queens and his favorite artist was Bob Marley!!!

just cuz society as a whole is jacked up it don't mean we have to be

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Yeah I feel you, I love allllllllll types of music. I'm extremly open minded, but hip hop to me is mad personal, and having other genres of music be considered hip hop just makes hip hop seem like some secondary genre. You get what I'm sayin? Saying hip hop is just spoken word with rhythm is like saying singing is just speaking with a melody, and rock is just plucking strings. I swear the rhyme schemes of rap will actually make me discover shit and I didnt even intend on writing it. The flow and rhyme scheme and even delivery of hip hop bring out a completly different feel and definetly a more wide variety of lyrical content. Hip Hop is its own thing, if people wanna be a part of it, they better learn to spit.

i think you totally missed my point, here.... let's go back to lauryn hill... you're gonna tell me she ain't hip hop?!!! but back in the day lisa lisa and cult jam were?... did lisa lisa even rhyme?...hell nah!!! but she was part of the hip hop culture, right? the same could be said of a mary j blge... she's a singer with the attitude of that of the hip hop CULTURE... there's a distinct difference between being hip hop and being a rapper... a rapper is just one facet of da hip hop culture... hip hop is an attitude and a a way of life... it incorporates many things... not just the basics that everyone knows of (breakdancing, rapping, dj'ing, graffiti, and fashion)...
check this excerpt written by KRS- One:

We practice Hip Hop beyond entertainment. We practice and teach Hiphop as an empowering lifestyle, an alternative behavior, a new way to view the world. For us, Hiphop is the name of our collective consciousness; it is the name of our international community, it is our nation! Most people regard Hip Hop as a music genre; they call Hip Hop Rap and they spell Hip Hop as hip-hop. Others regard Hip Hop as Break Dancing, MCing, Graffiti writing and DJing. However, these descriptions of Hip Hop still relegate Hip Hop to entertainment. For us, Hiphop is beyond entertainment. Rap is something we do; Hiphop is something we live! These distinctions between Hiphop, Hip Hop, and hip-hop were established so that the Hiphop research, discoveries, and interpretations of the Temple of Hiphop would not monopolize or dictate the reality of Hip Hop to everyone else. Our approach to Hip Hop breaks down into three levels of understanding; Hip Hop, Hiphop and hip-hop. Hiphop is the name of our collective consciousness. Hiphop is not a product to be bought and sold. It is the inalienable right of all Hiphoppas. It is the name of our existence! Hiphop = our unique Spirit, our unique collective consciousness, the force behind Hip Hops elements. Hip Hop = the performances of Breakin, Emceein, Graffiti Art, Deejayin, Beatboxin, Street Fashion, Street Language, Street Knowledge, and Street Entrepreneurialism. Hip Hop is the name of our tribe. It is what we call ourselves and our activity in the world. Hip Hop, spelled here with two capitals is Hip Hops the phonetic spelling. It is also Hip Hops traditional and general spelling. Hip Hop is Hiphop manifested. And finally, hip-hop = Rap music product. Only the unstudied rap fan unknowingly uses this vulgar spelling and language. Others are simply being disrespectful. The Temple of Hiphop operates within four departments which we call its M.A.S.S. or ministry, archive, school and society. As a ministry, we seek to relieve human suffering through an awareness of useful spiritual knowledge. We are a self-realization ministry. We believe that God speaks through ones true purpose in life. As an archive, we seek to collect and document Hiphops material experiences in the world. Our aim is to continue developing our traveling Hip Hop exhibit and official Hip Hop museum/archive for the study of Hip Hops history, art and culture. As a school, we seek to teach Hiphop, Hip Hop, and hip-hop to all interested students. We believe that a good education does not prepare you for the job market exclusively. We believe that a good education helps you to realize and prefect your true life purpose. Such an education helps YOU to become a better YOU. Finally, as a Hiphop society we seek to preserve Hip Hops independent voice. Whether it is with skill, influence, knowledge, and/or money, as a society our existence and activity insures Hip Hops proper documentation in world history. As a society, Temple Members help one another through the challenges of life. Our aim is to relieve human suffering whenever and wherever we can. Temple Members are those Hiphoppas that share a basic thirst for truth and an unshakable love for Hip Hop

This is MY definition oh hip hop as well adn this is why i am so passionate about helping the younger kats understand the differences

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werd... i definitely feel you on that one... that's why it dumbfounds me to see kats spit shyt like laffy taffy and be succesful... no one appreciates a lyricist who takes the time to craft his shyt and actually try sumn new to re-energize the music...

i'm not saying that those other genres ARE hip-hop... but they do play an important role in the development of our artform... always have...always will

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Everyone's take on Hip Hop is gonna be different, but limiting how others look at it makes Hip Hop no different than a parent. You can't say certain things or it's not hip hop. You can't rap with a certain style cause it's not Hip Hop. You can't be negative or it's not Hip Hop. You can't be Hip Hop unless you're teaching ppl, after a while its like fine I'm not hip hop, whatever I am, I'm that. And it's sad.

now ya getting what i'm trying to say... it's too limited!!!!!! that's exactly why i embraced what KRS One is saying in that excerpt... i already felt that way about hip hop before i read this but just the fact that other people view it on a wider basis, just as i do, is what keeps me going and wanting to continue doing this. i don't see my self as limiting others views... i'm expanding by adding other elements that they most likely haven't even thought of before... I love hip hop to death and i love getting into debates about it cuz i've pretty much been a fan from the beginning.. i study the lyrics, the way people say shyt, pick out what makes some songs as powerful as they are, i study the formulas... pick shyt apart and put it back together again like learning how to build motors.... even in my family life i incorporate hip hop... (street smarts, ethics, etc.)...

i just try and make people aware that hip hop is a lot larger than what they see on tv and hear on the radio... there's a behind the scenes part of it that needs to be learned and i try and bring that to the forefront

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Yeah I do the exact same thing, I'm definetly trying to make it the best it can possibly be. It seems to be growing musically, lyrically its falling off, but not with me

Me> everyone mc ever